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Old 03-24-2017, 03:08 PM   #101
pig4bill
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle227 View Post
It became more mainstream, but unfortunately, it also became the downfall of stud and draw poker in addition to the stud variants...and the few offerings became much more sparse following Black Friday.

Now it seems that it is only the raisins that have an interest in games that require thought processes to remember what cards have been exposed and to actually figure out the potentially five down cards held by an opponent...
It's because those games suck. You people need to face it - hardly anyone likes those games you are always whining about. Look at the Circuit events where people marvel they got 75 PEOPLE FOR THE HORSE!! Whereas 300 or 400 played the NLHE events. Most people don't like playing those other crappy games, and it's not because there aren't enough events for them.
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Old 03-24-2017, 03:19 PM   #102
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

Anyone know where this event will be held? Floor of Encore like the old days?
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Old 03-24-2017, 03:25 PM   #103
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

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Originally Posted by SMPoker View Post
Anyone know where this event will be held? Floor of Encore like the old days?
The last Wynn Classic series was held in the old poker room on the Wynn side. Not sure if that's even still there to be an option for this.
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Old 03-24-2017, 04:18 PM   #104
michelle227
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

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Originally Posted by pig4bill View Post
It's because those games suck. You people need to face it - hardly anyone likes those games you are always whining about. Look at the Circuit events where people marvel they got 75 PEOPLE FOR THE HORSE!! Whereas 300 or 400 played the NLHE events. Most people don't like playing those other crappy games, and it's not because there aren't enough events for them.
Perhaps you believe they suck because you cannot play them proficiently.

The HORSE event at The Rio drew in excess of 200 runners (213). The PLO event, incidentally, only drew 151 with an early week NLHE ring event drawing 255.

I don't recall a HORSE event with people 'marveling' at 75 entries but it is certainly possible given that events like that and O/8 always seem to get stuck in the crappy time slots which impacts those of us who choose to maintain a day job. More than once, however, I have flown to a Circuit location specifically BECAUSE they offered something other than NLHE and had others at my table who had done the same...
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Old 03-24-2017, 06:00 PM   #105
lv2plapkr
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

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Originally Posted by pig4bill View Post
It's because those games suck. You people need to face it - hardly anyone likes those games you are always whining about. Look at the Circuit events where people marvel they got 75 PEOPLE FOR THE HORSE!! Whereas 300 or 400 played the NLHE events. Most people don't like playing those other crappy games, and it's not because there aren't enough events for them.
I doubt you would say that if you played those "other games", it seems to me (no offense meant) you are one of those NLH players who like everyone else jumped on the no limit bandwagon and never knew other variations of poker actually existed
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Old 03-24-2017, 06:01 PM   #106
omaha8king
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle227 View Post
Perhaps you believe they suck because you cannot play them proficiently.

The HORSE event at The Rio drew in excess of 200 runners (213). The PLO event, incidentally, only drew 151 with an early week NLHE ring event drawing 255.

I don't recall a HORSE event with people 'marveling' at 75 entries but it is certainly possible given that events like that and O/8 always seem to get stuck in the crappy time slots which impacts those of us who choose to maintain a day job. More than once, however, I have flown to a Circuit location specifically BECAUSE they offered something other than NLHE and had others at my table who had done the same...
This exactly. I also maintain a day job and have to take days off from work just to be able to play these events when they are unfortunately scheduled during the week. I also played the HORSE event at the Rio and have specifically flown to other Circuit events when they held O8 and HORSE (Denver a few years back and Tahoe even more years back.) All we can do is spread the word to our friends and cohorts who value the games we play and hope we get better turnouts. And yes, it would be nice if one of those events were held on a weekend when we might get better attendance but I know that's not realistic anymore as they want all the NLHE crowd to show up for their NLHE tournaments.

As a side note, since this is the Wynn thread, I will comment on the fact that we (mixed game players) were not asking for a mixed-game-palooza from the Wynn. All we were asking (and hoping for) was one mixed game O8, HORSE or OE.) and considering they are running this tournament for a month and a half, I don't think asking for one limit mixed game event was extreme. There's this misconception from Mr. Blowhard in these threads that we want these series to be heavily stacked with mixed games. Not true. I'm perfectly fine with this year's schedule among all the other casinos. I like the Wynn. Played there many times. It's just a shame that they choose to go the route of all NLHE (again) this year. I make a flippant comment about their schedule and Mr. Blowhard calls it whining... so be it. The dude has to interject so he can value his prowess on anything and everything related to poker. Sad...
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Old 03-24-2017, 07:06 PM   #107
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

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Originally Posted by omaha8king View Post
This exactly. I also maintain a day job and have to take days off from work just to be able to play these events when they are unfortunately scheduled during the week. I also played the HORSE event at the Rio and have specifically flown to other Circuit events when they held O8 and HORSE (Denver a few years back and Tahoe even more years back.) All we can do is spread the word to our friends and cohorts who value the games we play and hope we get better turnouts. And yes, it would be nice if one of those events were held on a weekend when we might get better attendance but I know that's not realistic anymore as they want all the NLHE crowd to show up for their NLHE tournaments.

As a side note, since this is the Wynn thread, I will comment on the fact that we (mixed game players) were not asking for a mixed-game-palooza from the Wynn. All we were asking (and hoping for) was one mixed game O8, HORSE or OE.) and considering they are running this tournament for a month and a half, I don't think asking for one limit mixed game event was extreme. There's this misconception from Mr. Blowhard in these threads that we want these series to be heavily stacked with mixed games. Not true. I'm perfectly fine with this year's schedule among all the other casinos. I like the Wynn. Played there many times. It's just a shame that they choose to go the route of all NLHE (again) this year. I make a flippant comment about their schedule and Mr. Blowhard calls it whining... so be it. The dude has to interject so he can value his prowess on anything and everything related to poker. Sad...
i agree, even a single O8 tournament would have been an acknowledgment that there is more to poker than nlhe, and im sure they would be thrilled with the turnout if it wasn't scheduled against another limit tournement
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Old 03-24-2017, 08:59 PM   #108
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyLond View Post
When it says 4% of prizepool is withheld for staff, does that mean 4% of buy in or 4% of the part that's going to the prizepool after fees?
Hi, happy to clarify. The 4% does not come off the entry fee, only the base buy-in. Here is a breakdown at all of our pricepoints for the Summer:

Buy-In Prizepool Total Fees

$400 = 345.60 / 13.60%
$550 = 480.00 / 12.72%
$600 = 523.20 / 12.80%
$1100 Multi = 989.40 / 10.05%
$1100 Daily = 994.25 / 9.61%
$1600 = 1455.00 / 9.06%


Quote:
Originally Posted by SMPoker View Post
Anyone know where this event will be held? Floor of Encore like the old days?
It will be held in the Encore Players Lounge, directly outside the new poker room. We can comfortably fit 25 tables, bringing our table total for the Summer up to 53. We used this space for the Wynn Spring Classic and it was by far the best tournament area we've ever had. There is a picture of the set up on our Twitter if you want to have a look.

Happy to answer any additional questions if something comes up. Looking forward to the Summer!

Last edited by Poker Rep.; 03-24-2017 at 09:16 PM. Reason: Spring Classic instead of Fall
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:00 PM   #109
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

Wynn has found their niche. They have limited tables and they focus on offering a limited array of games but with the BEST structures in town and at about the going rake. Their service levels are also the highest of all the venues, IMO. Yes, I would like some changes, but I understand their strategy and their thinking, so I leave it to them since their name is on the building.
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:58 PM   #110
akashenk
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

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Originally Posted by Jlip View Post
can you provide some evidence for this?
i can provide one to the contrary
47th Annual World Series of Poker« Sets Attendance and Several Other Records; Awards $221+ Million in Prize Money
http://www.wsop.com/news/2016/Jul/78...R-RECORDS.html
I don't have WSOP figures in front of me at the moment. That being said, if attendance (from a number of unique entries standpoint) is up, I think it can be attributed to the massive increase in re-buy events. The inclusion of the Colossus alone must skew overall attendance numbers. Surely no one would claim the ME, or the featured weekend events or the staple 1k/1.5k tourneys have seen their attendance go up very much in recent years.

It can also be said that the shear number of events has gone up quite a bit. A case can be made that their attendance figures are uninspiring given these event increases.
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:14 PM   #111
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
I don't have WSOP figures in front of me at the moment. That being said, if attendance (from a number of unique entries standpoint) is up, I think it can be attributed to the massive increase in re-buy events. The inclusion of the Colossus alone must skew overall attendance numbers. Surely no one would claim the ME, or the featured weekend events or the staple 1k/1.5k tourneys have seen their attendance go up very much in recent years.



It can also be said that the shear number of events has gone up quite a bit. A case can be made that their attendance figures are uninspiring given these event increases.


Can you provide some evidence that poker is on the decline? I'm not arguing with you I just want to know if you any hard evidence beyond your intuition.


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Old 03-24-2017, 11:16 PM   #112
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noz22 View Post
Wynn has found their niche. They have limited tables and they focus on offering a limited array of games but with the BEST structures in town and at about the going rake. Their service levels are also the highest of all the venues, IMO. Yes, I would like some changes, but I understand their strategy and their thinking, so I leave it to them since their name is on the building.


That's the reason I am disappointed there are no limit/mixed Tournements at Wynn, because they do run the best tournements in town and I would enjoy playing there.


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Old 03-24-2017, 11:18 PM   #113
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

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Originally Posted by omaha8king View Post
This exactly. I also maintain a day job and have to take days off from work just to be able to play these events when they are unfortunately scheduled during the week. I also played the HORSE event at the Rio and have specifically flown to other Circuit events when they held O8 and HORSE (Denver a few years back and Tahoe even more years back.) All we can do is spread the word to our friends and cohorts who value the games we play and hope we get better turnouts. And yes, it would be nice if one of those events were held on a weekend when we might get better attendance but I know that's not realistic anymore as they want all the NLHE crowd to show up for their NLHE tournaments.

As a side note, since this is the Wynn thread, I will comment on the fact that we (mixed game players) were not asking for a mixed-game-palooza from the Wynn. All we were asking (and hoping for) was one mixed game O8, HORSE or OE.) and considering they are running this tournament for a month and a half, I don't think asking for one limit mixed game event was extreme. There's this misconception from Mr. Blowhard in these threads that we want these series to be heavily stacked with mixed games. Not true. I'm perfectly fine with this year's schedule among all the other casinos. I like the Wynn. Played there many times. It's just a shame that they choose to go the route of all NLHE (again) this year. I make a flippant comment about their schedule and Mr. Blowhard calls it whining... so be it. The dude has to interject so he can value his prowess on anything and everything related to poker. Sad...
Tissue?

And I'm fairly certain had the Wynn found it in their heart to make a sub-standard business decision by offering even one mixed game, you and many of your fellow mixed/game enthusiasts would have found some reason not to attend. Maybe it wouldn't line up with WSOP. Or maybe it would conflict with other events. Or maybe it would be too late in the day. Etc etc etc. There's never a shortage of reasons why these events don't get attended well despite the vocal, and yes, whiney, nature of some of their proponents.
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:43 PM   #114
akashenk
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

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Originally Posted by Jlip View Post
Can you provide some evidence that poker is on the decline? I'm not arguing with you I just want to know if you any hard evidence beyond your intuition.

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http://www.pokerupdate.com/news/indu...ing-las-vegas/

Btw, gaming space has seen transformations in recent years... whether it's blackjack being steadily replaced by higher margin carnival games or slots, or gaming options in general being replaced by nightclubs. Poker is the low man on the food chain, give its inefficient use of space, high overhead and the general disdain some property owners have for the prototypical poker player, so it's no big surprise it's the first thing to be effected by the overall shift going on in these casinos.
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Old 03-25-2017, 02:48 AM   #115
pokerprayer
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

excited for the tournament on 6/27 and 6/28. great structure for that price point!
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Old 03-25-2017, 02:53 AM   #116
WiCane
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
I don't have WSOP figures in front of me at the moment. That being said, if attendance (from a number of unique entries standpoint) is up, I think it can be attributed to the massive increase in re-buy events. The inclusion of the Colossus alone must skew overall attendance numbers. Surely no one would claim the ME, or the featured weekend events or the staple 1k/1.5k tourneys have seen their attendance go up very much in recent years.

It can also be said that the shear number of events has gone up quite a bit. A case can be made that their attendance figures are uninspiring given these event increases.
2016 Main Event had its most entries since 2011.

And there hasn't been a massive increase in rebuy events
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Old 03-25-2017, 08:24 AM   #117
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

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Originally Posted by WiCane View Post
2016 Main Event had its most entries since 2011.

And there hasn't been a massive increase in rebuy events
And the year before that it had its second lowest in that timeframe. Are you saying that last year represents some sort of Poker Renaissance? I think all that can be gleaned from the ME attendance is it has been remarkably consistent for the last 10 years or so. It will be very interesting to see what happens next year when ESPN is out of the picture or if/when the WSOP is sold.

And when I say there has been a massive increase in rebuy events, I mean it wasn't all that long ago when there were none. Then came along the Milly Maker, One Drop, Monster Stack, Colossus, Crazy 888, etc. Outside of the ME, these are now the premier events at the WSOP and they are what drive overall attendance figures.

All of this being said, I don't really know why we are talking about the success of the summer WSOP, and using it as some sort of barometer of the overall health of poker, particularly in Vegas. All of the major poker venues, if they're run with even the slightest bit of competence, do pretty well during the summer. That doesn't mean there isn't a razor thin margin between success and failure over the course of a year.
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Old 03-25-2017, 08:50 AM   #118
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

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Originally Posted by pig4bill View Post
It's because those games suck. You people need to face it - hardly anyone likes those games you are always whining about. Look at the Circuit events where people marvel they got 75 PEOPLE FOR THE HORSE!! Whereas 300 or 400 played the NLHE events. Most people don't like playing those other crappy games, and it's not because there aren't enough events for them.
I agree with your conclusion, just not your premise. Mixed games don't suck. They're just not a money-making enterprise at this time. There are lots of great games in the world (chess, ping pong, dodgeball, to name a few) which are both fun and popular. Some are even more wildly popular than poker. That doesn't make them money-making enterprises, and that's all that really matters in the gaming world.

IMO, the reason NLH has been so successful in the last 15 years or so, compared to other poker variants, is because it combines a number of elements which are really attractive to recreational players and spectators. It's relatively easy to learn and follow. It includes "action" which draws in gambling degenerates and people just looking to watch car crashes alike. And it's been romanticized by some high profile publicity (think "Rounders") and circumstantial events (think "Moneymaker"). None of these factors really exist in mixed games, at least not anywhere to the extent as NLH. So far more (maybe like 10-1) people regularly play NLH compared to mixed games. I am constantly amazed when casinos offer AS MANY mixed game options as they do.

So to all y'all mixed game advocates out there. You really have only two options available to you to get more mixed games offered (if you leave out incessantly whining about it, which will probably get you nowhere). You can attend whichever events are offered in such numbers that casinos will have no option but to expand their offerings. Or you can get Matt Damon to make a movie about the thrill of OE or Stud or whatever.
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Old 03-25-2017, 09:01 AM   #119
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
And the year before that it had its second lowest in that timeframe. Are you saying that last year represents some sort of Poker Renaissance? I think all that can be gleaned from the ME attendance is it has been remarkably consistent for the last 10 years or so. It will be very interesting to see what happens next year when ESPN is out of the picture or if/when the WSOP is sold.

And when I say there has been a massive increase in rebuy events, I mean it wasn't all that long ago when there were none. Then came along the Milly Maker, One Drop, Monster Stack, Colossus, Crazy 888, etc. Outside of the ME, these are now the premier events at the WSOP and they are what drive overall attendance figures.

All of this being said, I don't really know why we are talking about the success of the summer WSOP, and using it as some sort of barometer of the overall health of poker, particularly in Vegas. All of the major poker venues, if they're run with even the slightest bit of competence, do pretty well during the summer. That doesn't mean there isn't a razor thin margin between success and failure over the course of a year.
Sorry, shouldn't have lumped Monster Stack in with the others. It is not a rebuy event. Regardless, a lot of the attendance numbers are being driven by those other events which are not freeze-outs.
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Old 03-25-2017, 09:03 AM   #120
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig4bill View Post
It's because those games suck. You people need to face it - hardly anyone likes those games you are always whining about. Look at the Circuit events where people marvel they got 75 PEOPLE FOR THE HORSE!! Whereas 300 or 400 played the NLHE events. Most people don't like playing those other crappy games, and it's not because there aren't enough events for them.
I agree with your conclusion, just not your premise. Mixed games don't suck. They're just not a money-making enterprise at this time. There are lots of great games in the world (chess, ping pong, dodgeball, to name a few) which are both fun and popular. Some are even more wildly popular than poker. That doesn't make them money-making enterprises, and that's all that really matters in the gaming world.

IMO, the reason NLH has been so successful in the last 15 years or so, compared to other poker variants, is because it combines a number of elements which are really attractive to recreational players and spectators. It's relatively easy to learn and follow. It includes "action" which draws in gambling degenerates and people just looking to watch car crashes alike. And it's been romanticized by some high profile publicity (think "Rounders") and circumstantial events (think "Moneymaker"). None of these factors really exist in mixed games, at least not anywhere to the extent as NLH. So far more (maybe like 10-1) people regularly play NLH compared to mixed games. I am constantly amazed when casinos offer AS MANY mixed game options as they do.

So to all y'all mixed game advocates out there. You really have only two options available to you to get more mixed games offered (if you leave out incessantly whining about it, which will probably get you nowhere). You can attend whichever events are offered in such numbers that casinos will have no option but to expand their offerings. Or you can get Matt Damon to make a movie about the thrill of OE or Stud or whatever.
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Old 03-25-2017, 09:36 AM   #121
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by TR3V View Post
The last Wynn Classic series was held in the old poker room on the Wynn side. Not sure if that's even still there to be an option for this.
Doubt that is an option, it was barely an option last year. Pretty sure construction has taken out the old room.

At least the Encore floor is pretty quiet and not as smoke filled as Aria.
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Old 03-25-2017, 10:47 AM   #122
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

I played the spring classic and the Encore players lounge that was used worked just fine.
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Old 03-25-2017, 10:49 AM   #123
michelle227
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
Or you can get Matt Damon to make a movie about the thrill of OE or Stud or whatever.
Sort of ironic that you drop Rounders when stud actually made multiple appearances in the movie...

What didn't exactly help stud is the illusion that the judge's game gives that it was only for the raisins. But the kids today (which I put as anyone under 35) never bothered to learn the skill games and so it becomes easier for them to claim they 'suck' or 'are boring' instead of expanding their horizon.
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Old 03-25-2017, 11:24 AM   #124
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

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Originally Posted by sos41 View Post
I played the spring classic and the Encore players lounge that was used worked just fine.
That lounge is petty sweet when its not in poker mode too. Lots of big TVs, comfortable places to sit, reasonable table games and bar games too, like shuffleboard.
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Old 03-25-2017, 11:34 AM   #125
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Re: Wynn Summer classic

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Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
That lounge is petty sweet when its not in poker mode too. Lots of big TVs, comfortable places to sit, reasonable table games and bar games too, like shuffleboard.


I played my first tournament at the Wynn 3 years ago, and it has easily become my favorite place to play. They have good dealers, the staff is great, drink service is good, the tournaments are well run, they have for the price point the lowest rake, no paid parking, and you can park in the garage and it is an easy walk to even the new poker room.

In the spring seniors event, I had a great table for talk and even though I failed to last much past dinner break I enjoyed the day.




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