A $400 buyin tournament in Sacramento. 1st gets 60k. If you final table how much would you tip? How much would you tip if you score the 60k?

What percentage of your entry did the staff already get?

I generally tip 3% but if they take any % from the prize pool, then usually I drop it to 1% (as they usually take 3-5% from the prize pool).

In my experience, dealers rarely get any of the 3%, or whatever is taken out for "staff" fees. I suppose tournament organizers expect players to make up the difference. IMO, that is a hard bargain, considering the razor thin economics of live poker as it is. Its a shame the dealers get squeezed.

If I ship the 60k, I'm probably tipping 3k. 5% is fair, I think. I would probably tip 5% in 5 figures. 2% in 4 figures. Just my rake...I mean take on it.

Assuming first place gets 25% of the price pool, we know that the prize pool is $240,00. That number divided by 400 is 600. So there were 600 players. If each player put up a $10 dealer toke for extra chips, that's $6,000 that already went to the staff. Plus, these days rake is generally close to 20%. But let's just say it's 15% in your tournament..15% of 400 is 60. That times 600 players is $36,000 [If there is 20% juice, then that would mean $48,000 went to rake].

So the casino has collected $42,000 in rake for one tournament. ($54,000 under the not unusual 20% scenario). That's a lot of money for one tournament. Why is it "fair" for the casino to guarantee itself nearly first place money and for the staff to expect that the players pay extra. Over the long run, that hurts players. If juice were lower, a min cash would pay more and players could play in more tournaments. Plus the casino makes money in other ways like filling the hotel rooms, selling concessions, action in the pits, etc. There is no good reason why the winner should feel obligated to pay the casino's employees.

I say if you feel like it, tip. But when there is a $10 dealer add on plus 18% or so juice, I feel like there is an automatic gratuity built in. So anything extra is very generous.

Also, most of the tournament dealers are guaranteed like $15 per half hour down. That's $30 an hour, more than enough for low skilled, gray collar labor.

No tip if there was already a dealer toke at registration for extra chips or if the dealers already receive a % of the prize pool

I guess I need to plug a leak.

Before rakes got out of control I tipped very well when I made a good score. With inflated rakes today in live tournaments it is hard to justify a good tip.

I don't double tip (unless I'm at a local tournament where I know/like the staff).

While its unfortunate, I think the reasons rakes have gone up is that casinos are catching on to the fact that live poker is no longer the money maker it was during the boom. Poker requires lots of space and lots of staff. While certain events will always be money-makers (pardon the pun) and bring additional revenues to casinos in the form of publicity and added patronage, the fact is, most places would be better off filling a room with slots than having live poker. Its simple economics. I feel like the era of the live poker grinder is coming to an end. It may not be possible to beat the rake and the competition over any extended period of time. So the live grinders get squeezed. The dealers get squeezed. At some point, most casinos will decide its not worth the trouble. I think its already happening to a large degree.

This was event 1 in the Heartland Poker Tour at Thunder Valley. Buy in was 385 + 40 fee. Also 3% of prize pool is for staff.

I did not final table so did not have to worry about tip.

But let's say that you did win or final table and decides to tip, how would you physically go about doing this? Do you give to manager and trusts that he distributes? Go to each dealer? Some of them are no longer there?

It's generally at the cage when you're collecting your payout. Usually when you sign to receive your money, there will be a tip line and the cage will ask "would you like to tip our dealers today?"

I won a Venetian Deep Stack for 20k in 2011 I heard floor when I walked away say guy wins 20k and does not tip. Cliff note I sold 55%. I did not win 20k if I was not so tired I would have had a nice convo with him. Next day I got 200 in green and found the dealers I wanted to get tips and threw them a green. There are dealers I do not want to have anything because they are bad dealers and I do not want to support bad dealers.

If there is 3% taken out already, I would tip $0 to $300 depending on how good of a job I felt the staff did. It's hard to justify tipping several thousand dollars when the staff has already set aside that amount (regardless of how well they run the event).

^
+1. If there was 3% taken out then no extra tip .

i tip betwen 1-3% depending on whats already withheld. last week i chopped a $65 buy in for $515. i tipped $20 on top of the $5 from my buy in that went to the dealers

My method is not as simple as somebody saying "just tip X%", but it works out better. I find out how much (if anything) has already been withheld for dealer tips, as well as how much they get paid as salary before tips are added. I then ask the TD how many dealer-hours were dealt in the tournament. With this I can determine how much the dealers have made already. If I feel that they deserve more than that, I select a tip amount towards making that happen.

Having said all that, I'm a big advocate for all activities, not just poker (e.g., restaurants, valets, etc.), that if a tip has been charged to me regardless of service, then I never add more even if the person who provided service deserves more. Since the business never gave me an option to tip less for those who deserve less, why tip more for those who deserve more? However, I do give a reasonably big pass on this concept for poker, as there are many times when the winner(s) do not understand about tournament tipping, and leave nothing, or very little. Not because they are stiffing the dealers, but they just don't understand the system. This is the primary reason tournaments started adding the dealer tip to the upfront costs.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Not that I wholeheartedly disagree with you, but NOBODY can actually force you to pay a gratuity at a restaurant. Whether it be by paying cash or your card. So to say you don't ever tip on top of that is silly logic in my opinion. It is not the servers choice to make that policy. PLUS you can always factor in that a server makes roughly $3 per hour. Which is quite different and consistently lesser than a Dealer wage.

just some random thoughts.

later, Nobody Important (Seriously Tho)

This is not entirely true. A lot of restaurants will add a gratuity automatically. It's almost like a tax for going to said restaurant. Especially when you have over a certain amount of patrons per table.

And although you are right about serves (probably) making less than dealers- dealers do make under minimum wage. They have to spread out the tips they make in a tournament to every dealer in the room that signed a down card. In a big tourney with 100s and 100s of dealers it could only equate to a couple extra dollars an hour.

See ya, someone who hopes to be someone someday

I've worked at a few restaurants during my college days and you'd be surprised to know that the "automatic gratuity" isn't really automatic. Waiters / waitresses go to their manager or shift leader to add that onto the bill (it requires a system override that only the managers can do). With that said, it is at the waiters discretion. If he has a table of what seems to be a group of ballers, then often times they won't add the tip on because they are hoping the ballers will tip more than what the 18% comes out to be. Similarity, if it's a table that you feel may stiff you, you add the tip.

As far as tournament tipping, i think if they have already taken 3-5% then that is enough.

Without getting into what this means when it comes to how much or how little poker players should tip, the money which Is withheld for "staff fees" is typically not given to dealers... at least this is my understanding. That wasn't always the case. I think it was originally for the dealers. But now it usually goes to floor staff and tournament organizers. This is why many dealers hate dealing tournaments. Anyhow, if anyone believes this is the exception, not the rule, let me know.

How much did u tip dealers when you won the main event?

Exception, imo. As I understand it, based on conversations with dealers I know, they get paid in the neighborhood of $12-$15 per 30 minute down. And for many tournaments there are significantly more applicants for tournament dealers than those actually hired.