Due to overwhelming response, here's a thread where you can discuss tipping, etc and hopefully not derail other threads. The start of this thread consists of posts from the Chicago Poker Classic at Chicago Horseshoe in Hammond, Indiana. KM

The line of "Everyone knows that if you don't cash in a tournament you don't get the points" is complete bull. The most obnoxious thing about that is the implication is that you haven't "earned" the points if you didn't cash, but if that is true, then why give 9 points away to 9th-16th place? They didn't do anything more than 17th-32nd would have done in a full field and they would have only gotten 5 points.

Also I really like the TDs and dealers for the most part, but L-O-****ing-L at the idea of them bitching about tips not being enough:

240s - 24% rake (plus multi-entry in event 1)
200 turbos - 29% rake
130 nightly - 34% rake

Yes I left about 400 I think... 2pct equals 1800... Really? I do this for a living..AND they rake 3pct for staff... Is it not like 15pct added in restaurant and then they expect 15 more? Dunno... And after paying backers and expenses my take then is 20k. Would lov to know what pro community thinks of tipping after big win...

I generally tip 1% of my profit on a tourney, but that's just me. You're certainly not compelled to tip anything more because they take out the 3% from the prizepool (we all tip). Or at least that's my interpretation.

This seems pretty awful and clearly is piggybacking the usual WSOP/WSOPc/other series thing where you must cash to win the player points. That said, you can't just assume that rule is in place and not put it on the sheet for clarity. You definitely deserve the points but I think it's unlikely that you get them. What makes me think this the most is the fact that the first line of the small type at the bottom states "Any and all vouchers and monies will be awarded at Management's discretion." That's a big cop out but is probably going to make their decision stand.

Sounds like an all around BS situation. The rules have been posted and that's that... they also stopped play at 43 players on day 2 of the Main Event 2 days ago instead of playing to the cash (36 spots) on the basis that only 2 people busted the previous level and "we could be here til 5 am" and so we redrew seats which really sucked for me since I had the best bubble table ever but even more so for those playing the bubble short stacked who had grown comfortable with the opening ranges of everyone at the table and stuff.

Paul I too find that tipping situation to be a difficult one especially when you've sold a large percentage of your action. Unless specified to your investors that you're tipping 2% and that will come out of their portion of winnings it sucks to tip 2% on 50k (or whatever it is) when you've really only won 20k or something... yet it looks scummy/cheap not to. Anyway, I tipped a similar amount after making a run in the WSOP Main this summer because I only had ~30% and found it kinda unreasonable to be expected to tip more. I also think Catbrains has a point... I played only the Main at CPC this year partly because of how high the rake %s are on those smaller tournaments. They're gonna rake 30% and expect you to tip still.. that's absurd. The casinos have just gotten beyond greedy and it seems will just keep pushing things in their favor because people still continue to come play their poker tournaments, games, and slots no matter what the rake is.

gl getting the situation rectified Paul. Also, in my experience this weekend there was one real nice reasonable TD and one completely unreasonable, ears closed, decisions already set in stone TD who had an attitude problem. Don't know if any of that helps at all haha but hopefully its somewhat relevant.

To state things clearly I am from Madison WI. Not replying as a friend of Paul, actually it would be fair to say I am not his biggest fan due to some comments that I have found ridiculous at times. That said and not important to the situation at hand really. The rules are outlined by the tournament directors and are pretty clear to me. It does not state that you have to cash in the event to get points. I would assume I had earned those points if I were in Paul's shoes and his backers shoes. I do know both of these guys and do not think either is an angle shooter or cheat in any way.

I am sure that if I were in his position I would have played extra events and altered my schedule to try to win the extra 50k (how can you not). Saying it was an unwritten rule is pretty ridiculous in any circumstance as it would not require any effort to include it in the written rules. If this has came up before it is even worse that it is not included in the written rules. I am not sure if there has been an updated points list anywhere provided by CPC. If so were these points on here? If they were not, was it ever asked why previous to this?

As for the tipping. A tip is a tip and is extra money provided to the dealers. However, imo the casinos are ruining poker tournaments at an alarming rate. First we are paying over a 10 percent rake on all but the biggest of buy ins. Next we try to make every tournament a re-entry tournament and charge the full juice on additional entries. Now we shall withhold an additional 3 or more percent for tournaments staff. I know from cashing in some of these events that you are often reminded that you can tip about 3-5 times before receiving your money and being shown where the tip jar is. Often people have been backed and sold a ton of action and are not able to tip the "appropriate" amount on the entire win as they may only get 25 percent of that win. I hope that it was never said or implied by a TD or staff that his tip could ever influence this decision in any way.

Also Bob Smith and many of the TD's there are great but I do agree that whoever feels compelled to publicly state how much someone did or did not tip should STFU honestly. I do not think it should be made public to anyone whether a person over or under tipped in someone's opinion. I generally leave a tip whether in poker or a restaurant based on several things including service. I have quite frankly had dealers and waiters who quite frankly are not deserving of what is considered a standard tip and some who probably should get double.

+9755776554321112345666.76

Lol @karma havin anythin to do with it, they shld be GRATEFUL he left anythin extra.

People griping about the supposed "poor tip" should also take note that they had 2621 entries and only paid 198, announcing essentially that they were treating the prize pool as if it were a rebuy by only paying based on unique entries, and ignoring the fact they collected the juice again for every re-entry. His tip was 100% fine.

And your dickhead comments make me and others want to tip less and less. Good job ****ing yourself and your co-workers out of future tips.

OP, I hope you take this to court and win your justly deserved $50k.

someone should report this douchebag to the CPC staff (...ignoring the lack of competence from the initial issue) and anyone who will listen...
there are only one or two people who actually have access to the amount that you tip, (at least that was the case when i was payed out) shouldn't be hard to figure out who this is.

****
(derail apology)
just to reiterate:

******ed rake
+
3% from prizepool taken as mandatory tip
+
ridiculous floor rulings/full round penalties for unintentionally exposed cards(there were TWO instances i witnessed where this was caused by the dealer reaching in for the cards as they were being mucked--dealer calls floor, player punished)
+
inconsistent registration cutoffs
+
unclear # of payouts (event1)
+
points/cash debacle

=

**** additional tips/give that man his $200 back.

I am not part of any staff.. Im a friend of the guy who took second place.....Im sorry I offended you who think I was out of line for making it public that he only tipped $200 on a $92k hit..Like I said it was a crazy conspiracy theory lol,but if your gonna be butt hurt about me putting my opinion on here about him being a bad tipper and how it might have hurt his 50k chances I dont realy care you can kiss my a$$ lol... even if you have backers take out just what you won break the **** down then tip 2% of that...whats realy 2% of any ****ing amount of money lol

I mean, do you even see a lot of people agreeing with you here that it was an unacceptably poor tip?

By choosing to withhold 3% for "dealers and staff," a lot of us consider that the casino has already decided to choose an amount and "tip" for us.

It's like when a restaurant decides to incorporate an 18% gratuity into my bill; it's rare that I leave any thing else unless service is exceptional (although I usually tip anywhere from ~20-30% otherwise). Similarly, a lot of people think it's completely up to the player whether or not to leave anything extra when a dedicated amount is already pulled out of his or her prize money for "Staff appreciation."

I would have left more than $200 myself, as I think the dealers were excellent, and I know it's a hard way to make a living; but I think you're way out of line with your criticism. In this scenario, it's up to the player, and any amount from 0-3% could be considered an acceptable tip, if you ask me.

/derail

Well, in the specific example you give, 2% of the $92k he won would be $1,840. I'd say that is significant.

I'm guessing people looking for excuses not to tip in this series don't tip very often...

FYI, If you win $100,000 in an event that witholds 3% for dealers, you have already tipped $3000. If nothing was withheld you would have won about $103000. If you think they deserve more than $3000 you can tip any amount more. If you feel $3000 was appropriate or too high, you are well within your rights to tip zero.

Just curious what you think the average tip, lets say of a final tablist or winner of any WSOP event is? Say someone wins a 5K event at WSOP for 700K. What do you think they tip the casino? Say someone takes 5-8th for 200-300K what do you think they tip the casino?

I know tons of friends an aquaintances with scores like this at various venues, wsop, wpt. Pretty sure zero percents tip occurs far more then any sort of standard percent.

This isnt a charity poker room hounding you for tips. Nor should it be. The casinos take out 3% of the prize pool for dealer tip. On top of rake. And most places dont even ask you or give u an option to tip.

Just like in any service industry you don't have to tip (most the time). 3% is more less part of the dealer's salary, maybe an excuse for the house to take more off the top and pay the dealers more with the 3%.

Regardless I have no problem tipping 2% if the casino makes an effort to take care of its players examples including reasonable rake, food comps, added money, good structures etc...

In this case the only event that's relatively rake heavy are the turbos. In the case of the 240s it is hard to put on an event w 10k stacks and 40 min levels for under $40/head. If you want less % rake play higher. The heads up and 7 game were way labor intensive obviously and are incredible tournaments you won't find many other places.

On the other hand I basically never tip when there's a dealer add on.

So, to be clear, you don't consider the 3% staff appreciation withholding from the prize pool the equivalent of a tip?

A 3% "staff appreciation" withholding is really no different to you and me than a $10 "dealer add on" in a $340, assuming virtually everyone takes the dealer add on (usually the case). Think about it.

Maybe you're just using dealer add-ons as an excuse not to tip?

Now, if we're talking about a tourney with both...I understand what you're saying.

Guys, let's try to not derail the OP's thread by discussing tipping policies. This discussion has been beaten to death on many other threads imo, and nobody is ever going to agree.

Fair enough. There should prob be a "tipping/dealer addon/etc discussion containment" thread in MTTC-L that these posts can just be snap-moved to by a mod... (Paging Kevmath?)

This thread is getting ridiculously off topic, the tipping issue should have nothing to do with whether or not Paul deserves the 50k. From what I have read and understand, it seems that Paul is absolutely entitled to the money.

But because the tipping issue was brought up, it is an allegation that I feel Paul deserves some defense for. I have known Paul for a couple of years through his play in Las Vegas and become friends with him since. We once chopped a tournament and Paul left a very reasonable tip (I remember him asking me if it was ok) despite the fact that he was EXTREMELY strapped for cash at that time. Paul is a good guy who doesn't deserve this poor publicity, and lets not forget that Paul DID leave a tip for the staff. I bet there were many in this event who cashed and left $0. If you ever seen Paul play a cash game you would know for a fact that he is anything but a stiff when it comes to tipping.

[QUOTE=dfbuzzbeater;31916979]Well, in the specific example you give, 2% of the $92k he won would be $1,840. I'd say that is significant.

yea your right its a significant amount to dealers and there lively hood, but 2% ($1,840)out of your $92k BINK is NOT realy that significant ...to each his own I guess...Ill never ever tip less then 2% NEVER...I final tabled event #9 and got a terrible suck out by idiot player and still steaming I gave 2% tip out of my little $3,480 ...hard to do after crushed dreams 3 outer on river but I still tipped it ....

[QUOTE=Acesflow11;31924979] Lol @ comparing a $69.60 tip and a $1800 tip...carry on.

nit alert or truth speaking?