Hi folks. I have a question. Why do casinos use shuffle machines in poker tournaments when playing down to certain tables? It doesn't make any sense. They claim that the machine speeds up the game and more hands...but think about it. This is not live cash games where the house wants more hands more rakes. We are playing tournament involved hundred thousands or even millions, it's not necessarily for us to play fast because every decision we make is really important and gotta take some times. I think for them to use shuffle machines in the late stage is very strange and super shady. Just want everybody to play a fair game and honest. I am not a fan of shuffle machine at all. I've done a lot of research about how shuffle machine works and surprisingly i found out that the machine can read cards and that's the fact. Shuffle machines can be programmed if they want to. In my opinion, if they do hand shuffle from the beginning they should stick to it to the end. I don't feel comfortable buying 10K knowing that the machine will be handling cards in the late stage tournament. I never trust the machine. I think everybody SHOULD object it. What do you guys think ? Hope you guys enjoyed Christmas and wish you the best for upcoming year

That is very shady. I have been a victim of it too. I guess casinos want to pick the winners and loosers.

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Bahaha, its not shady, like OP said, they claim its speeds up game and gets more hands in ... because well its a fact that it does.

If I am at a table where i have a perceived advantage vs my opponents I want to play the most number of hands as possible, and a shuffle machine helps with that.

In a recent event i played in Calgary (WPT Deepstacks Championship) when we got down to 9 tables we started using the machines since they had 9 tables in the room with machines. The fact that you think they could use the machines to choose who wins is just laughable.

You conspiracy theory suggest that someone actively monitoring the table and somehow telling/sending the machine information such as how many players are at the table and what position should be dealt a winning hand. and I seriously doubt those machines are fabricated with any type of wireless capabilities or any other buttons than the RED and GREEN button on top and the ON/OFF switch at the bottom which might not even exist, you might have to plug/unplug it to power it on and off.

If somehow you are correct the someone definitly wanted me to get chips because I got to the final table as Chip leader

That being said when we got to the final table it did not have a shuffle machine. but I still won

I agree, I want shufflers whenever possible. Quit worrying about the conspiracy theories.

If casinos really want to speed up the tournament, why not use shuffling machine from the beginning? Why only use shuffling machines at the end when real money comes into play? Why do the shuffling machines have to be able to read cards? If you do your research you will see, most casinos now use auto shufflers for blackjack. Why? Because casinos have a bigger advantage than hand shuffling. Like it or not, those machines can read cards and can manipulate the game.

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I'd be equally if not more concerned with dealers rigging decks, but I'm not worried about either.

Modfw, the only reason some tournaments might only use shuffling machines at the end is because they don't have enough shuffling machine-equipped tables from the start.

Basically, the rigtards have gotten board of complaining about online poker and now want to complain about live poker. But all of the reasons why rigging online poker doesn't make any sense apply to live poker: what advantage would the casino have from making it more likely one player wins over another?

Ding ding ding.

Maybe they need to start rolling dice like they do in Pai Gow...

I can't believe I'm actually replying to this.

Auto-shufflers are super expensive, so as someone else just mentioned, maybe the casino doesn't have enough for every table.

Most players (basically all players except conspiracy theorists) like having shufflers at the end as you get more hands per hour, so the game plays slightly faster.

No idea why the shufflers have to read cards (or if that's even true). My best guess would be so it can detect if there's an incomplete deck?! I've worked with these shufflers before and can tell you, as a matter of fact, there's no wireless signal to them, so no one is reading the information. What reason would a casino have to rig them in a tournament anyway? Your theory is ridiculous.

Casinos use auto shufflers for BJ to prevent people from counting cards - that's the only "bigger advantage". It also means that they never need to take five minutes at the end of a shoe to re-shuffle six decks of cards. It's just continuous action which also favours the house.

You're asking some really good questions here. i think the public becomes aware that shuffle machines are capable of this, the public will lose confidence in poker and all the integrity, as result the industry is lost ..

It must be a handicapped dealer if it takes him or her 6 minutes to suffle one deck or 6 decks. Shuffling 1 deck in poker should take no more than 15 sec and shuffling 6 decks in blackjack take no more than 1 min. It does not speed up the game by much as casinos would like for you to believe. Go get a enginnering degree like me and then you will know what these machines are capable of these days. Do you know even some homes games now use cards with chips embedded in them? They know exactly what hold cards you have and whats coming on the flop, turn and river. Do your research.

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There are many good dealers who can deal fast enough and they can get you as many hands as possible, there is no need to use the machine, it just seems fishy. And do your research. The newest machine has card recognition technology it's in patents...and if a tournament involves casino players at the end then that would be a good reason...in favour of their players. works out pretty well for their benefits..

If the machine sets the shuffle order of the deck and the dealer then cuts the deck once it is out of the machine.........problem solved?

Troll threads from gimmick accounts seem super shady. Everyone should obj

Someone claiming an engineering degree to back up their conspiracy theory arguments is telling us to do our research...but they misspelled "enginnering". It's priceless.

PS: That 15 seconds you claim is meaningless to shuffle a deck to deal a hand of poker? The average hand in tournaments is 2-3 minutes. 15 seconds is 10% of 2.5 minutes. You don't think dealing 10% faster is meaningful? Perhaps an understandable mistake for someone not going around claiming advanced degrees in mathematical fields.

Dude typo... big deal. You act like you never fat fingered anything. The forum doesn't let you edit once you post.

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Cracks me up thinking that some of you actually believe they are going to go to the risk of their gaming license to fix a poker tournament...and, even if the deck WAS rigged, it cannot account for the fact that not everyone plays their hands in the same manner.

pssst...big edit button appears under the post, at least for some defined period of time after the post has been made. Trying to claim otherwise calls into question your engineering abilities...

Taptalk is not very user friendly to post on this board.

That sounds like EUE, not a 2P2 issue...

The shuffling machines can read the cards going through to tell the house if the deck is short (and if so, which one is missing) or if there are duplicates (this can be a bigger issue because the deck will still count to 52 but be missing a card while having 2 of another -- once I played a tournament where our deck had 2 5 of diamonds but no 4 of spades for an hour). There's a big difference though from being able say what cards are where and actually being able to set them there. I doubt the machines have that capability.

Plus what someone said about the dealer cutting the deck after taking it out of the shuffler. Where the dealer cuts is effectively random. There is no way to rig a cut deck.

You're getting trolled.

Shufflers aren't used in a tournament unless every table has one for fairness reasons, and typically they don't have enough to go around. They might have 5 available, so once it gets down to those 5 tables they start using them.

The deckmate 2 shufflers read the cards to verify that the decks are complete. I can think of several examples off the top of my head where there were 52 cards in a deck but two of them were the same. These machines catch that before they're used in a hand. All machines count the number of cards every hand, dealers only do that at most 4 times per hour.

In order for a player to benefit from a rigged machine they'd have to first hack the machine, then get it placed on the table they will be at in the future, then survive long enough in the tournament to make it to that table. If the hack requires the dealer to trigger an event or cut in a particular way they'd have to get a crooked, trained dealer onto the table. This all requires a tremendous amount of luck and help from high level floor staff who are risking their careers.

A dealer who is a mechanic or who has a flaw in their shuffle that can be exploited (incomplete shuffle, flashing cards, or not counting down deck) doesn't require anywhere near as much advance planning. It's still a remote possibility but more likely than a hacked machine.

How do you know the cut is random? Next time you sit down at the table just watch dealer when he/she takes the deck out from machine you will notice there will be 1 or 2 spots in the deck, the machine puts the cut card there and 95% of the time dealer will cut there. I've asked some dealers why they always cut the deck in the middle and why not top or bottom. They said they've been trained to cut like that. Reg flag
I think cutting the deck twice would prevent manipulation

Now you are just making s*it up...I have NEVER seen the machine raise the deck with a cut card anywhere near it. Cut card has ALWAYS been placed by the dealer who has it in the hand OTHER than the one they took a deck out of the shuffler with...

Of all the forms of cheating that can and does occur in poker (chip cheating, daubing, singaling, etc, etc, etc), this seems like an enormous stretch. And you haven't addressed the issue of how the casino would benefit from rigging the deck (if it were even technically possible), and why they would risk losing out on millions if not hundreds of millions/billions of dollars in revenue to do so.

Bahahahaha, now i know this whole thread is just troll you ridiculous, just stop now. THE CUT IT RIGGED ...ROFLMFAO !