I've seen several comments about excessive late registration periods. Today I think the Isle in Pompano crossed the line.

I was playing in a $70 satellite, hoping to get to a $250 satellite, hoping to get to a $1,090 buyin tournament. 22 were entered. Top 4 would get tickets and 5th place would get $100.

There were just five of us left playing in level 8. In normal circumstances, if they're paying top five and only five players are left...you're in the money. Not so here. That's because late registration extended to the end of level 8. Sure enough two players entered at the very last second, in fact, they were stuck in line and actually missed the deadline by a minute or so, but they had told the TD they were playing and he allowed them to play. Their entries added another $100 onto fifth place money, but now there were seven players, and instead of being in the money, the five of us who had played for nearly three hours weren't assured of anything.

We complained to the TD and his supervisor, and his supervisor to no avail. In fact, they were kind of smug and condescending about it. But if they can't see the problem with late registration which could extend longer than the bursting of the money bubble, then there's nothing I can say to explain it to them.

Anyway, one of the late players doubled up the other as he busted. We made a side deal to pay fifth and sixth $100. One of the late registrants won a ticket and two of the original five, including me, had to settle for a hundred bucks.

I think the Isle in South Florida is a nice place and they run some good tournaments, but after this incident, I really have no respect for the tournament management, for they show a basic misunderstanding of how to structure a fair tournament. I told them you can't take people out of the money and stick them back on the bubble again. In theory, if ten people had signed up at the last second, you'd suddenly be ten spots out of the money. They didn't seem to get it. Didn't seem to care at all.

That's absurd, should really be against some sort of gaming/regulation code honestly. Hard to believe anyone running a poker room let alone working in one would allow this to happen.

Late reg was announced before tourney started, so seems fine although I know on Merge they cut off late reg once the money barrier is crossed.

Not fine. As a player, what are you supposed to do when you get into the money? If you bust out in fifth place, do you get what's advertised as fifth place money? Or do you get nothing because people haven't registered yet?

Now say you're down to four and you've all earned tickets. Do you just wait around twiddling your thumbs until someone decides to show up? Conceivably, you could have a shorter stack than the new player coming in at the last second.

Just because the rules are published, doesn't mean the rules are good. They need to shorten the registration time to an hour, and try to preserve the integrity of the game and their establishment.

i think since the satellite hadn't reached 4 players yet it was correct for it to continue. one more person needed to bust to make the correct payouts since 5th got less than 1-4. if it had reached 4 then it definitely should have stopped.

lol at merge

That's not in the rules, nor did the TD ever allude to that before or after the tourney was over. The fact that fifth place was getting a lesser reward than
first-fourth is irrelevant. We were in "the money". And you can't be pulled of
"the money" simply because you continued playing and did not launch all your chips before another player showed up. Its pinheaded for the Isle to run a tourney this way. They really shouldn't be changing the commonly understood definition of "in the money" into something different.

Please show me some rules that help your case. I highly doubt you can.

Satellites end when there is nothing left to play for. It is very relevant if there were 4 or 5 people left.

Sounds like you are a little butthurt you got 6th or 7th. I'm not sure why I am responding to someone playing a $70 satellite anyways. Gl

TDA rule #1

1: Floor Decisions
Floorpeople must consider the best interest of the game and fairness as top priorities in the decision-making process. Unusual circumstances can on occasion dictate that decisions in the interest of fairness take priority over the technical rules. The floorperson's decision is final.

TD messed up IMHO

Show me the rule saying that late registration can end earlier than posted or that satellites end when there is nothing left to play for. The only rule they cared about was the one that said registration extends to the end of level 8.

Last time I checked, a satellite was still a poker tournament. If you set a precedent for pulling people out of the money in one poker tournament, you can justify doing it for any poker tournament.

Have you never played a satellite? Guess not. Because it seems beneath you to talk to someone who has. Please don't respond to me in the future.

Did you get 6th or 7th?

I got fifth. Another of the original five got 6th. Had it been left up to the Isle, he would have gotten nothing. But the players decided to divide the $200 for fifth and make it $100 for fifth and sixth. One of the two late players won a ticket (in about 15 minutes). The other busted, giving his chips to the other late arrival.

Congrats

Their entries added another $100 onto fifth place money,

wtf rake was $ 20 ? lol

The rake was $10 and the dealer add on was $10.

Two scenarios:

1) Satellite guarantees 4 seats and offers reg for 4 levels. On the first hand, there are 5 players. A guy busts. Does the satellite instantly stop?

2) Rebuy tournament with a 3 level rebuy period. On the first hand, there are 9 players. All 9 go all in and 1 player wins with no chop. Is the tournament over?

To me, both answers are clearly no, and these are exactly analagous to a tourney with 22 starters down to 5 people before registration has closed. We don't know the prize pool or payouts UNTIL REG CLOSES, because we don't know how many people enter the tournament. If someone busts with 5 ppl left but reg still open, they didn't get 'fifth place' yet. They got "4 + x"th place, where x = how many ppl registered after they busted. If I sign up for a tourney, it starts with 9 people, and I bust on first hand, then after reg closes they had 65 entrants, and are paying top 9, I don't get 9th place money. Because I didn't get 9th place, even though there were 9 people in the tourney when I busted.

So if fifth place is $500, it is a freezeout, and the buy-in is $100 anyone can just buy in once they bust the money bubble?

Obviously there is a difference between the early part of a tournament when many have not registered yet, and hours into it when people are only registering because it is so close to the money. Rules can be written to differentiate between the two situations, moreover TD's can use their discretion and close registration sooner.

Mods. I wasn't getting much response in this thread so I started another in Brick and Mortar. Sorry about that. But you can close this one if you like.

They haven't busted the money bubble. The money bubble cannot exist until prizepool is known. Prize pool cannot be known until registration/rebuys/reentries are no longer allowed.

I agree that the structure is idiotic and should be changed, but not DURING the tournament. What definitely should NOT happen is that TDs just randomly decide when reg will close. Would sure be pissed if I called and asked "hey when does reg close for this satty tonight" "oh 8pm", and then I arrive at 745 and am told the TD decided to lock it up at 730.

I really doubt that anyone came to the casino hours late for a $50+20 small time satellite, especially since they were still in line when registration closed. More likely they made the typical registration is closing announcement and the new players saw how few were left and hopped in line.

Anyway no one can change what took place already, and fortunately OP was not hurt too badly, but it seems everyone agrees in the future registration for this type of sub-satellite should be significantly shorter. And it might not hurt to put something in the rules about closing earlier if the Bubble is busted (you cannot complain if it is in the rules-right?)

Would it be over if it had gotten down to one player?

No. Would a rebuy tourney that started with 9 people be over if they all went allin pre on the first hand and one guy won with no ties?

You well know that the beginning of a rebuy tournament is a very different animal than hours into a tournament that comes to its natural end.

I wonder if the td's would have announced that registration was still open if the remaining players had made a deal that involved them going all in on a hand. I suspect the tournament would have been over.

It really isnt different. The tournament by definition cant be over until people can no longer buy in. Same as my other example: casino has a 4 seat guarantee satty. Blizzard happens and when tourney starts, there are 4 registrants. Reg is open for 90 min. Does the tourney instantly stop and those 4 are awarded seats? What if there are 5 at start and a guy busts on the 3rd hand? Stop now? Why or why not?

The point is that in this case the structure was defective in that registration was allowed to extend past the amount of time that such a tournament could be expected to come to its natural end. This defect could result in bizarre outcomes such as people buying in for less than the amount of the now guaranteed prize etc.

Some would argue that the floor could have used its discretion to protect the integrity of the tournament or at least not announce (assuming that they did) that registration was still open, or allow people who were still in line after the official closing time to register (although ordinarily that is something that they should do).

However, it is spilled milk and the only thing that matters, is that they be encouraged to consider whether four hours of registration is appropriate for every single tournament.

The other unique factor about this tournament is that was a "Survivor" rather than a "play for first" situation. Thus, late in the tourney your entire strategy would be based on your stack size relative to how many people are left. You would not want to make a lot of moves that you might want to make if you were playing for first but you also do not want to end up at risk of blinding out if the tournament suddenly gets longer than expected. Adding new players changes everything.

In the typical "play for first tournament" late entries can add to the prizepool without changing your strategy as much. (keep building chips until you have them all)