Hello everyone my name is Zach Gruneberg and I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this situation. Two months ago I was contacted by someone saying "If there is any left in your package I'll take 5%" I answered with "Definitely" saying that yes there is some left which he responded with "Cool" and that's where we left it at. We never said booked confirmed or made any arrangements in order for me to receive the money. I've ran into this person multiple times this series and they made no mention of getting me the 5% share worth or anything about further finalizing the deal. Now after I've won they expect their 5% and insist I am the one who "screwed up" to put it nicely. I've known this person for awhile but we've never done business before. In my mind until the money is exchanged prior to the tournament it's not finalized unless otherwise specified such as saying booked, confirmed or something along those lines. I don't want to scum anyone or do the wrong thing so I am posting here for opinions and thoughts. Thank you very much

Also to add: I don't believe this person was trying to free roll me in anyway so that's not the issue I don't believe the action was booked and confirmed and he does that's where the discrepancy lies

I would say since there was negligence on both sides to arrange money being transferred prior to the start of the series there is no action, if you didn't have money before the package started then he has no action. I buy pieces of people and I usually make an attempt on my own to contact and set up a money transfer be it in person or through bank.

If he was so interested in buying a piece of you he would have made an attempt to contact you and if he didn't its his fault, as it's yours for not trying to contact him in the respect that if you blanked the package you would have no claim that he owes you. So there is no action and if you feel the need to rectify anything take him out to dinner or offer him no mu on your next package or even a .01% freeroll of the Main Event but you DO NOT owe him anything just like he WOULD NOT owe you anything.

I personally don't believe anything is finalized until money is in hand "confirmed" or "booked" are just acknowledgments that your holding action for him until process is followed through ie: receiving money

"Cool" is not a confirmation of a deal.

They asked if you had 5% of your WSOP package left, you informed them you did and they said "cool".

Zero discussion of how to pay or when to pay; no binding statements such as "book it for me" "I will take that 5%" or similarly used terms to convey acceptance of action.

They may say it was negligence on your behalf but with them making no effort to pay for their percent or contact you at any time before now regarding the conversation you had about your package it is negligence on both your parts.

You may have been able to sell that 5% to someone else. Were you acting as it that 5% was sold? Did you make comment in your MP thread that 5% was being held for this person? If so, you are making binding statements to that 5% being sold. Now it is up to this purchaser to make the payment for the 5% being held.

Cliffs;

No payment = no action without alternate agreement on action (swaps, % as a gift, % as a repayment of prior debt, etc)
Negligence on both involved
Chalk it up to experience and move on

No action

i actually disagree i think that action is confirmed...he asked if you had 5 left, you said definitely, he said cool...if i had that conversation with a friend i would assume i had 5% and its on the seller to collect.

No money, no share.

I misread the initial message that the friend sent you. The 'ill take it part' followed by 'definitely' & 'cool' constitutes booked action to me especially since you know this person irl

The part I'm struggling with is multiple runins prior without him mentioning that he owes you $. You FT'd the Monster Stack. He had 4+ weeks to pay you. How many times did you run into him?

This makes me feel that this overrides what I said in the 1st paragraph and makes this no action.

How many events were in your package? When did the runins happen in relation to your schedule? How many were there? What is your buying/selling history with this person?

I ran into him periodically throughout the summer his one horse was deep with me in the Monster stack and he was constantly on the rail. He never once mentions anything about having a % of my winnings etc etc he even said something about "forgetting about it." today when I discussed this with him. I sat with him on the stage and discussed hands on break my package consisted of 9 events starting June 26th and I've been out here since the 6th. I've never had any past dealings with him until this Summer where he bought %s of me in two other events which I actually received cash for that he had his friend give me for him. Those were events not in the package and he made sure I had the money before I went to buyin for those ones. Sadly I bricked those ones but went deep in package ones he did not give me the money for. When I said definitely I meant that yes I still had action left I understand how that could be interpreted either way. I messaged him 4 days later to confirm and set up details which he saw but never responded to. These are all in my facebook logs

My feeling is that there is no action here. Particularly if you actually tried to follow him up for payment and he didn't act.

I specifically state up front that if I haven't received funds from someone taking a piece before it starts, then no deal, simple as that.

No

if the convo went "def" "cool, let me get that", "ok" then action is sold for a friend a good friend at that. Also OP never said they were friends.
It's on both parties to collect.

Clearly no action, don't let him freeroll you or try to guilt you, and ask yourself if you bricked would you try to collect from him. Serious question did you play under the assumption that he had a piece of you? Or did you play under the assumption he didn't?

I truly played under the assumption he had no action at all and even he believes that. Thanks for the responses guy appreciate it

Sounds like you didn't ask for the money and he certainly didn't offer it. Definitely looks like he was freerolling, but whether that was his intention or not it is a lesson learned for the next time. If he didn't offer to pay you before the tournament then I highly doubt he would want to pay for after you lose. Both sides need to move on since no money was exchanged.

More info about that could be useful. i.e. did your message require a reply or did it set everything out (except the money transfer)?

I'm with pistons on this one. He doesn't just inquire about the package, he states that if there's any left he will take 5%. You answer that there's action left, hence he will get those shares.

If I had this discussion with anyone I'd previously done business with I'd consider it booked

At first I was gonna say NO ACTION but Ruben (pistons somewhat) put it best: it seems that the guy was interested in booking 5% if there is ANY left. Definitely , in this case, means action is considered booked. However , I am unsure on who's fault is for not collecting/paying. I usually make sure I keep track of all this crap and everyone paid\, before I play any MTT I sold for

So first off I am very close friends with the villain who purchased this 5%. I don't know OP Zach that well, but what I do know is villian considers them to be "boys" and they are friends of friends also. Now before I start I will let you know that villian is one of the most laid back and generous people in all of poker (Gruneberg knows this) however he is very very lazy, hates dealing with people, and in general hates money (Gruneberg knows this). The real story of what happened is that villain has bought action from gruneberg in the past and buys more action (and some that he knows is deadwood just to be nice) than anyone I know personally. In general whenever he books the other person usually initiates the payment plan (and for friends they almost NEVER even talk about exchanging money, unless it's obvious they need it... And in this case Villian knew Zach probably DIDNT need it bc he just had a 6 figure score that was not part of the package). What Zach said is mostly correct, 1$ickdisea$e (who is very good friends with Zach, and a brother and best friend to villain) told villain Zach was selling and he should buy some. That is when Villain messaged Zach


Zach was just about right on what was said, I have a screenshot somewhere but cannot find it. Villain said something like "I'll take 5% if you have any more available" (knowing Zach almost surely has it available bc 1$D JUST told him to buy it and Zach was trying to sell a good amount) and Zach responded "definitely" villain responded cool, to which grune left out he responded in all caps "lets **** go [villains name]"


Fast forward to the Rio villain and gruneberg see each other for the first time since the messages on Facebook. Both of them are semi-******ed first off (sorry Zach you know your brain is mostly l8red) and villain actually brings up the package he says something along the lines of "yo Zach, what are we gunna do about that package? I heard u got picked up full time now so are we still on or what?" And Zach kind of brushed it off like we'll figure it out later.


***SPOILER THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART*** So now I'm deep in the monster stack with Zach 36 to go or so and on break me villain and 1$D are talking, and 1$D says to villain wow so sick you never unbooked ur piece of Zachs package did you? Villain says no not that I know of we never really talked about it? 1$D says oh unreal Zach hit me up (1$D had 8%) and told me either I could unbook my 8%, or keep it but only for a small select few tournies from
The package, and I (1$D) told him **** that if I can't have them all I don't want it and Zach was apologetic but with his new deal he couldn't let him have the original package piece.


At this point it's pretty obvious that no matter what exactly was said before and whether he even KNEW it was actually booked, Villains piece is clearly booked. Villain begins scrambling for advice bc he is too nice to confront Zach about everything, and everyone is telling villain that the money is definitely owed to him and his piece is booked, however villain is saying that deep down he didn't even know if it was booked or not, but if Zach would have bricked everything he would have just peeled him the $ he owed (and I know for a fact villain would not have asked 1 question, he would have just payed for the 5% bc he remembered booking it and it was never turned off, even though he may have felt there was a shot he was getting freerolled ((however again he thought him and Zach were boys and in the South where me villain and 1$D are from this is how we do things so he probably wouldn't have even felt bad peeling him expecting Zach would do the same if he made money, however we also know Zach is an east coast dude about that life so it's somewhat expected that Zach would post this small piece of the story and try to spin it to avoid paying bc that's what that east coast lyfe is about and we respect that GRUNEEASTCOASTHUSTLE)).


It's pretty simple Zach, villain is one of the stone cold best dudes in poker and he considers you his friend. Also he would have 1000000% payed you the 5% of your package if you bricked. Just pay the Kid! Maybe your backers will come off a piece on their end but c'mon not paying here is a tragedy

Austin your post has a couple factual errors, misquotes, and timeline issues. I never said lets go to villain after our first conversation. He never responded to any of my messages prior to WSOP after he inquired if I still had action left where I tried to reach out to him repeatedly to set up arrangements to receive the action. Kevin unbooked because he wanted a % of every event I played at the Series not just the 9 events in the package and he actually gave me an ultimatum that either he gets all of them or he won't invest in any. If you ask him he'd tell you that's 100% truth and I even could screen cap the texts to prove it. Also he made sure he did this prior to the start of the Series and had setup financial arrangements to get me money prior to the events to make sure he had the % he wanted something I tried to do with villain here but he never got back to me. The conversation I had with villain after my 1st final table was nowhere near the context of him saying if he's booked or unbooked he never once mentioned his 5% the entire Series that's a fact nor did he mention anything about his cut during any of my runs or make any effort to confirm the action or in this case confirm it wasn't booked. It's an interesting point that Villain after I got to WSOP bought a couple pieces of other high buy-in events where he actually made the effort to get me the money prior to me registering the tournament to guarantee his piece, but during these various few transactions never once mentions his 5% of the package or making sure I have the money for the buyins of that. I also would've never asked Villain for the 5% after the Series because I didn't have him as booked everyone else who was invested I was in constant contact with, giving updates, telling them how much they've won ETC and ALL had paid before registering and we had made arrangements in advance. Something I tried to do with villain but to no avail as he was MIA. My brain is actually working better than ever and I am 100% lucid the entire time. I don't feel like getting in specifics and discussing other peoples personal lives or lifestyle habits because god knows I was near death and in a bad way for a long time, but being in an altered mind state 24/7 isn't a good place to be one for your health and two for your memory.

On a personal note I like both you and Villain. It was nice playing with you in the Monster Stack and you're probably the most absurdly aggro player on the planet. It's frustrating this happened and I can see Villain and I both being at fault but I truly don't believe the action was booked and I don't think Villain or people that were there like Kevin would argue that. Also Austin I am happy you posted up your side, but you should've mentioned you're one of villains #1 horses

The part that makes me think not booked is that he paid you for pieces of single events before they started. Everything else made me think booked.

I think you can use your best judgement here. If this guy really had 0% chance he would freeroll you then you should probably pay, especially if you are friends.

Maybe make a compromise and pay for 2.5% of the package since it seems you both are at fault/confused.

Man, I need to get in on this "booked" business ...

If any of you have 5% left ...

Call me if you win, otherwise ... Cool.

Ok grune i will just try to go in order here in response to your last message. But i want to clear a few important things not regarding this issue up first. I like you too, and i appreciate the kind words! I wish we both could have gone even deeper but oh well they make more timbeys, and regarding the thing about your "brain being l8red" i was not referring to your past or anything specific. It was more of a joke based off of the twitter goats like burbick tweeting "#l8rbrain" and the joke that me and Villain have about using this often, basically anytime anyone does anything dumb we just say l8r brain.

Now for me and villains relationship, this is very out of order because you actually ended with this but i want to clear it up bc i think you are unfair or misguided. I tried my best to make sure everyone understood i was villains friend and not really close to you, I just wanted to do it without putting as much of me or villains business out there as possible. Yes villain backs me, but i am posting here out of principle. Any dollar villain recieves from you or anyone ever effects me 0 at this point. I am posting bc villain is too lazy to speak for himself and i just believe this whole mess needs to be cleaned up.

For the initial messages on facebook. Everything i said is 100% true. You did immediately respond either exactly or something very very similar to "LETS GO [Villains name]" and villain has a screenshot on his phone of this, i can post it here after he sends it to me but I think you can just go look at your messages and you will see it!

You said i have a lot of the facts wrong, when your next two points in your last response were just a literal repeat of what i said lol????? Did anyone else not notice this? It seems like the theme here is that you are GRASPING. You are somewhat talking in circles about irrelevant points creating confusion. Its actually a very simple deal but anyways i will clear it all up for you and everyone reading.

Regarding you messaging him more on facebook before the series i don't know anything about this, but i do know villain is probably on facebook 0% of the time he is grinding SNGs at the WSOP so i know this wasnt a blatant attempt to avoid you (obviously that didn't happen as yall talked a few times as you both agree)


Now the thing with kevin unbooking it, i basically said exactly what you said you just corrected me on some irrelevant details. My point is that you reached out to him about unbooking because of your new backing deal, and he gave you an ultimatum and had to cancel it.

It seems all of your arguments are grasping at the fact that villain didn't show any interest or make any effort to reach out to you. But i am telling you that is what villain does. It is his MO. He does nothing but text everyone ever that he wants a piece of everything ever. After that he just leaves it alone until they hit him up, they say send me money here or there and he does it everytime in a very timely manner. (which you had experience with in your other events!! In his own words he said something like " its all a big joke, for grunes other events i bought a piece of that were not in the package he kept hitting me up to pay him the money and i told him i was headed to hawaii but ill get kevin to peel you or ill figure it out etc" and this money all made it to you.

Regarding the one meeting where villain tells me yall discussed the package, you are trying to pound the fact that yall never really discussed terms of the package and that was actually my point. You are both at fault but he did say he mentioned the package to you in the hallway by the bar by the high limit baccarat and you basically said yall will figure it out later (after which kevin ends up telling villain he unbooked all his action with you, and villain gets exicted bc he now remembers booking the action and you never unbooked with him and this is really the bottom line)<---- this conversation first happened on day 4 deep into the monster stack

Your next statement is a joke, its actually sort of scary you would even post it. The whole point of this is that it is "technically" booked, and you are both idiots but the action is booked. The fact that you would say " I would have never asked him for 5%" just shows that you are GRASPING. This is completely and totally irrelevant and is just more distractions from the point. IT DOES NOT MATTER
He WOULD HAVE PAYED YOU IF YOU ASKED. this is the bottom line, in villains mind once he hears kevin had the option to unbook his action, yours was clearly still booked. THE ONLY REASON HE EVER HAD A DOUBT was because he heard you had gotten a new backing deal, and you never hit him up about the money (which he thought was most likely bc yall are boys and you didnt need the money upfront, in almost every piece he buys he doesn't pay upfront unless the person asks for it) This whole sch-peel about "the action isnt booked unless you make arrangements to pay" is a huge resounding whopping massive loser of a joke. No one in the medium to high stakes community thinks this is true, you dont HAVE TO PAY UPFRONT for action to be booked.
WHEN THE ACTION IS BOOKED, IT STAYS BOOKED ONLY UNTIL SOMEONE SAYS UNBOOKED. no money has anything to do with it unless it is specified.

Lastly I am NOT ACCUSING YOU of thinking the action was booked and freerolling. I genuinely believe you didnt KNOW (notice i said know not think, because this action was 100% booked) that the action was booked. But again this is an irrelevant point (like many to all of yours )

The bottom line is villain would have 100% payed you the 5% before during or after all of these tournaments, no matter the outcome. The facebook message is very clear that the action is booked, and again he has the screenshot but i didn't want to bring his name into it if we dont have to so please just go look again or maybe text him and he will gladly send it to you.

I don't think deep down you are trying to be scum, but I must admit if I were you... The second he contacted me after the monster stack (which by the way is 100% the first time he thought about any of this seriously, and oh i forgot to mention that you are also grasping at the fact he never hit u up about how you were doing or the $ u owe him from previous tourneys in the package and I am telling you, maybe you somehow dont know this about villain... but he WOULD NEVER HIT YOU UP DURING THE SERIES even if u won 4 bracelets (ok hes too nice he would tell you good run etc) but he does not GIVE A FLYING **** about the money zach. THAT is why he never asked you to get payed or pay or how you are doing or anything. All he cares about is grinding) if i saw these facebook messages and realized i offered kevin to unbook, i would have immediately peeled every dollar and said u **** lucky bastard i meant to unbook this i just didnt realize/forgot it was booked.

Pay that man his money

I have to take KidWork's and villain's side on this one. All action that is booked is booked until unbooked. Maybe it's possible that Zach forgot that the said action was booked because he approached another investor (Kevin) and gave him the option to unbook or keep booked, and he should have done the same for villain. Seems like this Facebook message thread could clear up some confusion? I disagree with Zach about action not being booked if funds aren't exchanged before the tournament. I've been playing live MTTs for the past ~5 years. I've sold action for 100s of tournaments. Rarely do funds exchange hands before the tournament starts. Often I just have running tabs with several people. Some are owed, some owe, etc. It's never a big issue for me as I don't buy or sell action from/to people I don't trust. If Zach trusted villain enough to sell action in the past and currently trusts the villain enough to book action over a Facebook message, it's irrelevant whether or not villain posted funds before or during the series. Seems like villain is owed the 5%. Hope you guys can settle this issue.

Austin Bursavich a/k/a "KidWork" has a rep for embellishing so that his prop bets come out his way. (not quite cheating, but def. one sided) It goes back to his magic playing days. I wouldn't be surprised if he's doing something like that for his backer here. So take his posts for what they're worth.

OP, did the backer pay you before you played the other tournaments where there was no controversy and you both knew action was booked? If so, that leans toward action NOT being booked in this tourney. If not, that leans toward action being booked. Also, have you guys thought about splitting the difference, or some other compromise, and calling it a day?

My gf just texted me "are you hungry? Im about to cook some chicken." I replied "definitely" she said "cool".... I expect chicken when I get home.