the poker community needs more people like Ben and Allen

All for this!

Im meeting with ken Lambert in Colorado to discuss bens findings.

Following this. Won HPT Ameristar East Chicago for $211,777

I'm sure Jeremy would like to respond in this thread, but his account was banned a couple years ago for answering a question in Brick and Mortar.

In regards to the recent conversations about prize pool deductions...

Most players assume that the house rake at each tour stop is a flat $150 when in reality that number sometimes varies slightly based on location. That slight variation accounts for all funds in question.

Any further concerns or questions may be directed to HPT Director of Operations Ken Lambert at kenneth.lambert@pnkmail.com.

Now that I am looking at this, something seems off. First off, the championship event comes out of the total prize pool correct? That is on top of the 22% given to the champion. Second, where is the bracelet figured? Is it also out of the total prize $$?

Here are my figures. Correct me if I am wrong.
671 players X $1,455= $976,305
1st place pays 22% according to HPT chart
$214,787.10 (I received $211,777) -$3010.10

Ben says $967,640. You will have to explain this to me Ben. Receipt says $1,455 Player, Fee $55, Admin Fee $150 = $1650 Buy in

With Ben's Figures 1st place would equal $212,880.8 Still - $1103.8

HPT's figures are $962,640 Prize pool. 671 entrants = $1434.63 per player in prize pool X 671 players =
$211,780.8 (I'm still short $3.80, LOL)

Where did this $$ go?

http://www.hptpoker.com/Payout.pdf

So korey, you are saying that HPT posts Admin fee of $150 on your recipt but then takes a varied amt more depending on the facility. Wouldn't it be easier and more transparent if this was just declared on the receipt at buyin??

Purely a guess on my part, and I have no official connection to the HPT.

Your math shows you short just a touch over $3K. In addition to the cash, you got a package for the final event of the year, including 1 bullet plus hotel? That package is probably valued at $3K. This might be the explanation, at least for that event.

Cheers, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Greg,

That would seem simple enough but the math doesn't add up. It says that 22% of the prize pool goes to the winner. Added to that is an HPT bracelet and entry to championship event.
Listen, I'm not complaining here so please don't take it that way. I'm very happy with what I earned. What I have a problem with is the math. Ben raises a valid point. You can fudge my numbers with the addition of bracelet and bullet to championship event. I'm fine with that. But what about the others? How do you explain the payouts of #2 through 70?

The way i understand it.

$1650 buyin.

$150 fee

$45 staff

$15 "promotional "

$3600 winners pkg. (Around $5/entry)

$1435 + 215

If you use these figures does the prizepool equal approximately $1435 x entries?

Allen, your math is pretty spot on for East Chicago.

$1440 x 671 = $966,240

$966,240 - $3600 = $962,640

That's the exact amount of the E Chicago prize pool.

So when/where is the $15 promotional disclosed (prior to this thread)?

And the "chainsaw" rips through another one! Well played!

So basically your admitting to taking more then you said you would be taking? As well as more then your receipts depict.

I have a text message from Ken Lambert Jr. Where he admits this. Prior to that NO WHERE!

That is a really high rake vs other comparables 1500s/1600s

This sounds like the making of a class, gotta' play an HPT event to join!

Why are you NOT complaining? It sounds like they ripped you off by $3,000. This would be completely unacceptable in any other context - I don't see why it's acceptable here.

It seems that everyone is trying to figure out the correct prize pool and chainsaw may be correct but I think Heartland Poker needs to confirm how they came up with the official prize pool and more importantly why it is not properly disclosed on the receipt. It should be readily apparent what the prize pool is at all tournaments. For the record, I took 2nd in that tournament.

Agreed the 1% "promotional " fee should be disclosed prior to entry on receipts and signage.

They legally can take up to %20 fee without letting anyone know, amirite? Must be nice to dip into the prizepool anytime.

They legally can take up to 20% this must be disclosed in the structure sheet.
In our meeting Ken asked if this is my opinoin or if it's illegal thay it's wrong to take more then posted.
All in all the meeting did very little. We didn't really get aN answer. I understand that to some extent Kens hands are tied due to the corporation he is working for.

It seems to me they havent even looked at the spreadsheet I provided. He attempted to explain the missing funds from Ameristar St. Chares this way.
AMERISTAR SC has a 210 player fee
1650-210=1140.
Then 3% is withheld from the 1140x.97= 1396.80.
6.88% withholding on the 1500
Seems reasonable wheb explain
Especially because that number correlates with the numbers in my example.

Actually wait one moment. In fact, that number does not correlate at all to the figures I provided.

It's been made clear that Promo funds are being handled in a questionable manner as well.
Aaron Massey commented during the meeting about the three seats he was provided outside of his winners package.
He requested a contract to wear the HPT patch, they didn't oblige. Rather they gave him buy ins undocumented under the table.
Promo funds!

The fee at Blackhawk was apparently "only" $180.

Lowest of the tour.

Wow that's horrible if true!