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Old 06-14-2012, 05:40 PM   #1
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Donks vs Thinking Opponents?!

I'm sure you've all over heard someone say "I'd rather play vs good thinking opponents". My initial reaction is to cringe to these statements since I've made most of my NLH cash game money playing spewy fish.

Then I played five of the $230 Deepstacks at the RIO and come to the conclusion that YOU CAN NOT:

Bet as a bluff, bluff check raise, open trash & win dead money, hand read, use your perceived image, 3-bet air, understand their thought process, rep hands or take creative lines.


The only thing you can do is get VALUE VALUE VALUE. The problem with this observation is that we are then handcuffed to our cards. We are dealt CRAP most of the time and when we are dealt a good hand we MISS the board the majority of the time.

In a cash game I'm totally fine with that. I will be patient and wait to flop top top or something good and BET BET BET for value.

But in a MTT we MUST make moves to steal blinds and stay afloat. We can not afford to wait around. But if all of our bluffing and other 'tools' are not available to us because everyone is brain dead or stubborn then I feel like I'm just involved in a lotto.

Soooooo. I'm starting to sympathize/agree with people who say that they'd rather play thinking villains.. At least when it comes to tournaments.

Thoughts? Sure I'll be berated for this TLDR post but eh!
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:20 PM   #2
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Re: Donks vs Thinking Opponents?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ftheuigea View Post
YOU CAN NOT:

Bet as a bluff, bluff check raise, open trash & win dead money, hand read, use your perceived image, 3-bet air, understand their thought process, rep hands or take creative lines.


The only thing you can do is get VALUE VALUE VALUE.
Bet as a bluff - false
bluff check raise - correct
open trash & win dead money - false
hand read - false
use your perceived image - correct
3-bet air - kind of false
understand their thought process - false
rep hands or take creative lines - correct

how often are you doing thing things labeled correct in a $230 tournament?

one of the best things about playing against the people you describe is their passiveness which usually allows you to see more cards cheaply.

you're really telling me you'd rather play against someone doing things like bluff check raising and 3-betting your opens with air than someone who just calls everything with middle pair?
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:26 PM   #3
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Re: Donks vs Thinking Opponents?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ftheuigea View Post
Then I played five of the $230 Deepstacks at the RIO and come to the conclusion that YOU CAN NOT:

Bet as a bluff, bluff check raise, open trash & win dead money, hand read, use your perceived image, 3-bet air, understand their thought process, rep hands or take creative lines.
You're doing it wrong. I do this stuff all the time. Sure I get caught once in a while when the guy 4-bet jams but that's poker.

Making moves when the average stack is 15 BB's works so much better than when it's 100 BB's too. A lot of it is about timing and stack size.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:54 PM   #4
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Re: Donks vs Thinking Opponents?!

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Originally Posted by Koko the munkey View Post
You're doing it wrong. I do this stuff all the time. Sure I get caught once in a while when the guy 4-bet jams but that's poker.

Making moves when the average stack is 15 BB's works so much better than when it's 100 BB's too. A lot of it is about timing and stack size.
Totally agree...if you are playing a calling station, don't bluff them because they will call with any pair or draw. Conversely, these are the perfect people to trap with a big hand (even middle pair may be considered big against them).
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