Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

MTTc - Live Live updates from major events, logistics, trip reports, and other live (not televised) major tournament discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-16-2010, 02:34 AM   #101
Matt Savage
Pooh-Bah
 
Matt Savage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 5,124
Suggested Season 9 Standardized WPT Structure

FYI- This is the structure I suggested to all the casino partners for season 9 event though they ARE NOT FORCED to use. Let me know if you have any comments, criticisms, or would like to add and verbiage to the bottom of the page.
I have used 20,000 in starting chips at both Bay 101 and Commerce since my involvement with both properties and am willing to go to 30,000 because it seems like the standard number of starting chips. I also realize that many WPT stops have already made submissions or have even already had their event but I urged them to consider this simple but generous structure going forward.


My suggestion will be that buy-ins less than $10,000 at least use hour long levels at least on day one and two and that 90 minutes be used on 10K or higher. This structure would even work for the Championship with 2 hour long levels and 30K to start but I imagine they would want at least 50K/75K to start in which case my suggestion would be to start at 75-150/100-200 and 90 minute levels.

Examples of how I will be using the standard structure with different parameters are as follows:

Marrakesh 5,000E (3 days) will use 1 hour levels throughout the tournament
Commerce $10,000 (6 days) will play 5-90 minute levels each day and back to 60 at the final table.
Bay 101 $10,000 (4 Days) Days 1A/1B will be 1 hour, day 2-90 minutes, day 3-2 hours 6 handed and back to 60 minutes at the FT.

I initially created this as a guide for our international stops but I also feel that it gives each domestic partner a chance to use it and change the time levels but still letting the players know what to expect from a WPT tournament.



Again, comments welcome



WPT CHAMPIONSHIP STRUCTURE
NO-LIMIT HOLD’EM
30,000 in Starting Chips



LEVEL ANTE BLINDS
1ST - 50 - 100
2ND - 75 - 150
3RD - 100 - 200
4TH 25 100 - 200
5TH 25 150 - 300
6TH 50 200 - 400
7TH 50 250 - 500
8TH 75 300 - 600
REMOVE 25 CHIPS
9TH 100 400 - 800
10TH 100 500 - 1,000
11TH 200 600 - 1,200
12TH 200 800 - 1,600
13TH 300 1,000 - 2,000
14TH 400 1,200 - 2,400
REMOVE 100 CHIPS
15TH 500 1,500 - 3,000
16TH 500 2,000 - 4,000
17TH 500 2,500 - 5,000
REMOVE 500 CHIPS
18TH 1,000 3,000 - 6,000
19TH 1,000 4,000 - 8,000
20TH 1,000 5,000 - 10,000
21ST 2,000 6,000 - 12,000
22ND 2,000 8,000 - 16,000
23RD 3,000 10,000 - 20,000
24TH 4,000 12,000 - 24,000
REMOVE 1,000 CHIPS
25TH 5,000 15,000 - 30,000
26TH 5,000 20,000 - 40,000
27TH 5,000 25,000 - 50,000
REMOVE 5,000 CHIPS
28TH 10,000 30,000 - 60,000
29TH 10,000 40,000 - 80,000
30TH 10,000 50,000 – 100,000
31ST 20,000 60,000 – 120,000
REMOVE 10,000 CHIPS
32ND 25,000 75,000 – 150,000
33RD 25,000 100,000 – 200,000
34TH 25,000 125,000 – 250,000
35TH 50,000 150,000 – 300,000
36TH 50,000 200,000 – 400,000
37TH 50,000 250,000 – 500,000
38TH 75,000 300,000 – 600,000
REMOVE 25,000 CHIPS

Level times can be altered based on the casino’s needs and suggested times are 1 hour, 90 minutes, or a combination of both. Please note that if hour long levels are used than breaks will be done every 2 levels and if 90 minutes than breaks should be done after each level. This will also leave latitude for the casino on when to schedule dinner breaks and end of days.


Final table structure for WPT Season IX. (excluding Bellagio)
If the average big blinds upon reaching final table are below 30 the structure will be rolled back to the appropriate level with a 30BB average as a minimum. If the average is above 30 then just continue on the same level in the below structure.
Hour long levels/ 30 minutes heads up, frozen on level if structure goes below 15BB average
3,000-6,000 1,000
4,000-8,000 1,000
5,000-10,000 1,000
6,000-12,000 2,000
8,000-16,000 2,000
10,000-20,000 3,000
12,000-24,000 4,000
Change 1,000's
15,000-30,000 5,000
20,000-40,000 5,000
25,000-50,000 5,000
Change 5,000's
30,000-60,000 10,000
40,000-80,000 10,000
50,000-100,000 10,000
60,000-120,000 20,000
Change 10,000 chips
75,000-150,000 25,000
100,000-200,000 25,000
125,000-250,000 25,000
150,000-300,000 50,000
200,000-400,000 50,000
250,000-500,000 75,000
300,000-600,000 75,000

So far the average final tables have lasted 8+ hours


(Casino Reserves the right to make changes in the best interest of the Tournament)
Matt Savage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 12:47 PM   #102
doublejoker
Old News
 
doublejoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,650
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Why are antes often 1/3 sb. 1k 3/6 seems high. The ept structure is much more player friendly and finishes in the same number of days.
doublejoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 12:58 PM   #103
Matt Savage
Pooh-Bah
 
Matt Savage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 5,124
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejoker View Post
Why are antes often 1/3 sb. 1k 3/6 seems high. The ept structure is much more player friendly and finishes in the same number of days.
Because three straight levels of a 500 ante are plenty

1,500-3,000 500
2,000-4,000 500
2,500-5,000 500
3,000-6,000 1,000


I believe and ALWAYS have that antes should be between 20% and 33%
Matt Savage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 02:08 PM   #104
PujolsOfPokr
adept
 
PujolsOfPokr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: on da grind
Posts: 900
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejoker View Post
Why are antes often 1/3 sb. 1k 3/6 seems high. The ept structure is much more player friendly and finishes in the same number of days.
High antes are player friendly imo.
PujolsOfPokr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 02:40 PM   #105
Todd Terry
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 16,304
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

I agree with Chainsaw. I think antes should be 25% of the SB and if that's not possible should always be less than 25%, which is the approach taken by the Borgata (I don't have enough knowledge of the other venues' structures to name other casinos who do it but I'm sure there are some).

Looking forward to starting with 30K at the LAPC!
Todd Terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 03:05 PM   #106
Matt Savage
Pooh-Bah
 
Matt Savage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 5,124
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Terry View Post

Looking forward to starting with 30K at the LAPC!
Matt Savage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 03:12 PM   #107
Matt Savage
Pooh-Bah
 
Matt Savage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 5,124
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Terry View Post
I agree with Chainsaw. I think antes should be 25% of the SB and if that's not possible should always be less than 25%, which is the approach taken by the Borgata (I don't have enough knowledge of the other venues' structures to name other casinos who do it but I'm sure there are some).
SNP (Stop Nitty Play)

You will never see these levels in a tournament I run

600-1,200 100
2,000-4,000 400


They leave the smaller denomination chips on to long slowing down dealers, players, and table moves which make the structure MUCH worse. You NEVER need to have more than a rack or two of actual chips on the table at any time.

Last edited by Matt Savage; 10-16-2010 at 03:27 PM.
Matt Savage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 07:30 PM   #108
Todd Terry
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 16,304
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Savage View Post
SNP (Stop Nitty Play)

You will never see these levels in a tournament I run

600-1,200 100
2,000-4,000 400


They leave the smaller denomination chips on to long slowing down dealers, players, and table moves which make the structure MUCH worse. You NEVER need to have more than a rack or two of actual chips on the table at any time.
I understand this concept with 2000/4000/400 vs. 2000/4000/500 (and 500 ante is 1/4 of a SB anyway), but how does it make a difference at 600/1200/100 vs. 600/1200/200?
Todd Terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2010, 05:07 AM   #109
Matt Savage
Pooh-Bah
 
Matt Savage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 5,124
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Terry View Post
I understand this concept with 2000/4000/400 vs. 2000/4000/500 (and 500 ante is 1/4 of a SB anyway), but how does it make a difference at 600/1200/100 vs. 600/1200/200?
400-800 100
500-1,000 100
600-1,200 200
800-1,600 200
1,000-2,000 300
1,200-2,400 400
Matt Savage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2010, 06:38 AM   #110
riverph7
old hand
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Somewhere close to Wall Street
Posts: 1,252
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Matt,
Is there any chance of Bay 101 type WPT Bounty tourney on east coast ?
riverph7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2010, 01:16 PM   #111
Matt Savage
Pooh-Bah
 
Matt Savage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 5,124
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Quote:
Originally Posted by riverph7 View Post
Matt,
Is there any chance of Bay 101 type WPT Bounty tourney on east coast ?
That is up to the casino properties, so let them know you want one.
Matt Savage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2010, 04:21 PM   #112
Kevmath
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: @Kevmath
Posts: 28,196
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

An update on WPT London:

http://www.gutshot.com/news/?p=905
Kevmath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2010, 11:08 PM   #113
Matt Savage
Pooh-Bah
 
Matt Savage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 5,124
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevmath View Post
An update on WPT London:

http://www.gutshot.com/news/?p=905
Thanks Kevmath, they discussed with me what my opinion was and I think they are doing the right thing. I chalk it up more to inexperience than malicious intent but it sure is nice to see this.
Matt Savage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2010, 01:27 AM   #114
Mcmatto
old hand
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,751
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Hey Matt, kind of fliped throught he thread very breifly but what is going to be done about Payout structures..

Bellagio's was absolutly atrocious, the worst i have ever seen in any poker tournament i have ever played.

I cashed in 22nd out of 350 and didnt even get a full min cash (19.4k i think)

This is horrendous and a disgrace to a venue that is supposidly the meca of poker.

The incompetence of the people incharge of Bellagio poker tournaments needs to be dealt with before WPT takes an image hit from the players.

As of right now im unsure i will be returning in Dec for 5 diamond unless things are changed. i mean come on if they get 400 runners they pay 100!!!!!!!! 399 though pays 50?
Mcmatto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2010, 01:37 AM   #115
Matt Savage
Pooh-Bah
 
Matt Savage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 5,124
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcmatto View Post
Hey Matt, kind of fliped throught he thread very breifly but what is going to be done about Payout structures..

Bellagio's was absolutly atrocious, the worst i have ever seen in any poker tournament i have ever played.

I cashed in 22nd out of 350 and didnt even get a full min cash (19.4k i think)

This is horrendous and a disgrace to a venue that is supposidly the meca of poker.

The incompetence of the people incharge of Bellagio poker tournaments needs to be dealt with before WPT takes an image hit from the players.

As of right now im unsure i will be returning in Dec for 5 diamond unless things are changed. i mean come on if they get 400 runners they pay 100!!!!!!!! 399 though pays 50?
Thanks, I will go to Jack Mcclelland with the concerns I have heard but in the end it is his decision to make.
Matt Savage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2010, 04:50 PM   #116
Steve Brecher
grinder
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 496
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcmatto View Post
... if they get 400 runners they pay 100!!!!!!!! 399 though pays 50?
Bellagio -- Jack McClelland -- has had this unusual payout schedule for years.
Steve Brecher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2010, 05:05 PM   #117
JohnnyGroomsTD
Poker Room Rep
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: the DMVeezy
Posts: 1,580
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Terry View Post
I understand this concept with 2000/4000/400 vs. 2000/4000/500 (and 500 ante is 1/4 of a SB anyway), but how does it make a difference at 600/1200/100 vs. 600/1200/200?
Every tournament I have directed has had a ante/SB ratio of between 1/4 and 1/3. Changing the antes is the same as changing the blinds IMO. I would propose that instead of lowering the ante ratio, we just do away with antes all together. That would make it much easier on the dealers, and the staff could color up chips much quicker.......
JohnnyGroomsTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2010, 09:43 PM   #118
Vicious Vinny
grinder
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 680
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyGroomsTD View Post
Every tournament I have directed has had a ante/SB ratio of between 1/4 and 1/3. Changing the antes is the same as changing the blinds IMO. I would propose that instead of lowering the ante ratio, we just do away with antes all together. That would make it much easier on the dealers, and the staff could color up chips much quicker.......
DO AWAY W/ ANTES ALL TOGETHER!?!??! is that a joke johnny? please tell me you are kidding
Vicious Vinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2010, 11:19 PM   #119
wildman75
grinder
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 545
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicious Vinny View Post
DO AWAY W/ ANTES ALL TOGETHER!?!??! is that a joke johnny? please tell me you are kidding
somewhere allen kessler is doing backflips
wildman75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2010, 11:44 PM   #120
Matt Savage
Pooh-Bah
 
Matt Savage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 5,124
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyGroomsTD View Post
Every tournament I have directed has had a ante/SB ratio of between 1/4 and 1/3. Changing the antes is the same as changing the blinds IMO. I would propose that instead of lowering the ante ratio, we just do away with antes all together. That would make it much easier on the dealers, and the staff could color up chips much quicker.......
Wow Johnny this is revolutionary! What a visionary you are and the changing chip aspect is something I never even realized, will look into doing this for the LAPC!

So instead of some of the BS structures I have seen like

400-800 50
500-1,000 75
600-1,200 100
800-1,600 125
1,000-2,000 150
change 25's
1,200-2,400 200
1,500-3,000 300
2,000-4,000 300
2,500-5,000 300
3,000-6,000 400
change 100's

could now be

400-800
500-1,000
600-1,200
800-1,600
1,000-2,000
1,200-2,400
change 100's
1,500-3,000
2,000-4,000
2,500-5000
change 500's
3,000-6,000

What do you think guys?
Matt Savage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2010, 01:33 AM   #121
JohnnyGroomsTD
Poker Room Rep
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: the DMVeezy
Posts: 1,580
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Savage View Post
Wow Johnny this is revolutionary! What a visionary you are and the changing chip aspect is something I never even realized, will look into doing this for the LAPC!

So instead of some of the BS structures I have seen like

400-800 50
500-1,000 75
600-1,200 100
800-1,600 125
1,000-2,000 150
change 25's
1,200-2,400 200
1,500-3,000 300
2,000-4,000 300
2,500-5,000 300
3,000-6,000 400
change 100's

could now be

400-800
500-1,000
600-1,200
800-1,600
1,000-2,000
1,200-2,400
change 100's
1,500-3,000
2,000-4,000
2,500-5000
change 500's
3,000-6,000

What do you think guys?
I actually laughed out loud when I read the last 3 posts.
JohnnyGroomsTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010, 04:09 AM   #122
raidalot
old hand
 
raidalot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: one step behind
Posts: 1,997
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevmath View Post
An update on WPT London:

http://www.gutshot.com/news/?p=905
I received a cheque for an additional 4% prize money. Well done (i) Darcus for persistence; (ii) 2+2 for being here as a forum to vent this stuff; and (iii) Genting Casinos for doing the right thing in the end.

This shouldn't have happened in the first place but the players and dealers have been looked after more than appropriately and we should draw a line under the matter.
raidalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 02:16 PM   #123
Darcus
newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 39
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

From the details supplied to me by Mr David Davis, Director of Commercial Operations - London, following a so called investigation, I am led to believe that Gentings have not acted appropriately. As such I shall be submitting evidence to the police within the next week with allegations of theft and fraud.

As relayed to me by Mr Davis, of the £48k taken from players 'in error' only £34k has actually been repaid and a further £8k has 'gone missing' but has not be noticed in the investigation, despite being overseen by Mike Hoskins Managing Director of Security and Compliance and Mr Davis. Of the same amount agreed to be paid to dealers who worked the event I believe that approximately £14k has been paid out legitimately. Having spoken to both agency dealers and Genting dealers there seems to be a chasm of disparity between statements made by Mr Davis and evidential truth.

I have also been made aware that Mr Simon Thomsett attempted to investigate myself in an attempt to discredit my position, hardly the actions of a company 'wishing to do the right thing'.

I believe there is now sufficient evidence to put to the police for theft and fraud and to advise Inland Revenue to conduct their own investigations into the matter.

You can make your own conclusion as to how certain companies in this industry view players loose attitude to their money once the authorities have looked into the matter.

May I also take this opportunity to advise you that despite there being a clear and admitted 'error' in favour of Gentings of at least £48k, Mr Thomsett failed to inform the appropriate managers (as confirmed in writing by Mr Davis) and instead attempted to argue and defend it on a public forum. This is a clear breach of compliance. Whether this breach has been reported, as required by their licence, in Gentings 3 monthly reports to the Gambling Commission is yet to be seen. As far as I am aware, Mr Thomsett is still deemed honest and professional enough to remain as Poker Manager.

Mr Thomsett retaining his position whilst seemingly jeopardising Gentings reputation, failing to comply with internal procedures, breaching Gambling Commission licensing requirements and possibly breaking the law, is a much clearer indication of the position taken by Gentings over this matter.

The poker industry still operates in grey areas and there seems to be an increase recently in disputes of a similar nature as in the case of The Empire casinos Bad Beat Jackpot and in other areas such as the current Betfair incident.

If you don't wish to be the mug in a mugging, then less complacency and more diligence will help us all to ensure integrity within the game we all love.

'The devil triumphs when good people do nothing'
Darcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 04:11 PM   #124
jackinbeat
journeyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 399
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

Sorry to hear this, and Darcus, you are a legend for putting yourself on the line for this.
jackinbeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2010, 02:55 AM   #125
Matt Savage
Pooh-Bah
 
Matt Savage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 5,124
Re: Discuss WPT details with Executive Tournament Director Matt Savage

In this Poker News Daily article Mike Sexton discusses shortening of major tournaments, reducing buy-ins, and deep stack tournaments.

Opinions?
Matt Savage is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online