A good friend of mine (and a player I have a % of) William Gibbons has been playing in the Chicago Poker Classic. He won event 1, besting a field of 2600 players. He was awarded 25 points for winning this tournament. In addition, he made it to the round of 32 in the heads up tournament which awarded 5 points. The Chicago Poker Classic is attempting to say that he does not receive those points because that was not a cash. Unfortunately though they made the rules themselves and clearly listed them in the following link:
http://www.horseshoehammond.com/imag..._Structure.pdf

It clearly states that by finishing in 17th thru 32nd place players will earn 5 points in the heads up event. There is literally nothing in the rules stating that you have to cash to earn the points. They are now trying to say after the fact that you need to have cashed to earn the points and are not honoring the rules they put into place themselves. William and I all along have been planning out his schedule for this series based on the fact that he would be awarded these 5 points.

William Gibbons won the turbo tournament tonight for an additional 12.5 points. According to their initial rules he should have 42.5 points total and be in the lead for the Points Race which pays $50,000 to the winner, but due to them adjusting the rules mid tournament series they are now trying to say he has 37.5 points, one point behind the leader going into the final event, tomorrow at Noon.

I sincerely hope the Chicago Poker Classic will make this situation right as quickly as possible.


-Shane

PM River2...or hopefully he will stop by to explain.

William took it up with a supervisor tonight, I'm not sure if that was River2. The supervisor accused William of angleshooting and said "Everyone knows that if you don't cash in a tournament you don't get the points".

In contrary, there is no angle shooting going on even remotely and we're just asking for this tournament series to honor the Rules they created themselves.

I must say that "everyone knows that if you don't cash in a tournament you don't get the points" is a false statement in regards to this series. I had overheard someone (a player) saying that a 20-somethingth, noncashing finish in some tourney was good for some pointage... He was talking about the hu...but I thought at the time he was referring to all prelim events, and had assumed the same until someone had told me otherwise, even though it would have been kind of unusual to give points for non cashing. (I had a 20 somethingth, noncashing finish in the 7 game). So there was at least a little confusion in the field, unless you were the same one I overheard near my table talking about it during round 2 of the hu.

If whoever you spoke to actually used the word angle, that was completely inappropriate, if you and William had indeed assumed all week that he had these extra points, and he had made tourney playing plans based on that assumption. I dont know if you have a completely valid point or not, I'm not in chicago any more and didn't study the points series sheets too closely when I was there, but it sounds like whoever you spoke to was a bit too defensive about IMO a fair question, if the tourney series scoring sheets were in fact as you claim them to be.

Hope you get a better explanation than what you mentioned receiving tonight. The guys running this are pretty on top of things, I'm pretty sure the official rules for the promo somewhere must back them up, because the "everyone knows..." defense doesn't apply here IMO... How could they expect everyone to know how they choose to award points for thir own series? If there's truly nothing that mentions cashing on the scoring rubric, then it seems clear to me he's earned the points.

It's not 2 points, look at the sheet I linked. It's 5 points for finishing 17th - 32nd. I agree that awarding points for non cashing in events is unusual but the heads up was a different case. In their regular tournaments they clearly stated that cashing was worth 2 points, in their turbo tournaments they clearly stated that cashing was worth 1 point. In their heads up tournament specifically it has no mention of cashing at all and just says that 17th - 32nd place is worth 5 points.

At the time I figured they were doing this to encourage people to play in the heads up event (generally lower turnouts) and were doing so by awarding the larger than normal points (even in this case for a non cash).

A bit trickier then, since the sheets were right side by side, and the prelim and turbo sheets as I recall and as you mention had slots listed above cashing that in theory could end up being non cashing. Should almost def scan the sheets and let people see what you're talking about.

I think hu had just barely under the number their payout structure needed to pay 32 people, fwiw...

Based on that link you posted in the other CPC thread (your link in this thread is broken), I think they 100 percent should give points to 17th to 32nd in the HU. 20 somethingth, non cashing finishes in other numbered events should probably be awarded points as well, if you ask me. At best, it's unclear what counts and what doesn't

Ultimately, it does say that the awarding of prize money is at the managements discretion, but I think it would be poor discretion to not award these points for hu unless there is more info out there I'm unaware of. GL...

Pretty saddened by this... Whatever they say standard practice is, and they may be right, the written rules are explicit... Ryan leng my co contender is about as big a gent as can be...

Was called a Cheat and angle shooter by the td at the top of his lungs... The first I heard of an alteration to the written rules was tonite... Disgraceful all round, let's hope they put this right...

I'm going to play devils advocate. Let's say the heads up tourney only got 32 players... Are you saying that just by regging, you receive 5 pts? I'm not saying what they're doing is right, but i can understand their stance.

The guys that run the CPC are good guys at the core, but they like to make it known they have the authority.

Last year, in event #1 we were 12 handed and I accidentally exposed my cards(i mucked them and they inadvertently hit the button and flipped face up...) the dealer called the floor immediately and he served me with a 1 round penalty. I absolutely lost it, and it almost cost me the tournament. I ended up chopping because of a lockbox play, but regardless, the guys out there have no priorities....

William is a good man, and even better player. He and I were 4 handed last year at the main event and he ended up knocking me out in 4th. Good luck to him and hopefully he gets this matter resolved either way.

I think we can all understand their stance. Typically in points series, you can't get points without cashing. That being said, the sheet that is being linked to is pretty specific that you get points for top 32 and never states you can't get points without cashing. It sounds like they basically just forgot to put that one line explanation on the sheet. That being said, I'm not sure how this will be resolved.

Hi well I have a conspiracy theory of the guy winning a huge win at $92,000 and cheap ass only gives $200 tip when 2% is standard of big win! Lol maybe that **** gets around and people are like screw his ass why would we want him to win the CPC point leader! maybe a lil karma coming around

Yeah and just to clarify, William won 3 heads up matches to get to that round of 32 before ultimately getting out. It's not like he just won 1 match to get to that point. From my understanding, most heads up tournaments in general reach the $ after 3 matches.

Again though, I don't think any of that is that relevant as they clearly stated the rules up front and now they're in a situation where they need to honor the rules they came up with. In future years they can choose to create a clause stating You have to cash in a tournament to receive the points but they can not just make up that rule on the fly.

On top of all of this, it's unexcusable and quite frankly embarrassing that the tournament director today called William an angle shooter. I've worked with William for quite some time now and he's quite the gentleman to work with.

I actually heard this same exact theory today from someone else. If the Chicago Poker Classic staff is choosing to alter the rules and not play fair due to this situation it's really incredible. I'm not going to go into what I think a player should/should not tip in a tournament but using that as an excuse for the situation at hand is deplorable.

http://web.archive.org/web/201107190...poker_theriver

Scroll to the bottom for how winstar did their points for player of the series in 2011. They explicitly state you've got to cash in an event to earn points. Agree with veerob that they probably just forgot to throw on a must cash clause here, but since they did forget it...well, who knows what they'll do.

But yah, I think they probably should give him the points for the hu...

Changing the rules/payouts right before the final event in the series would be pathetic. They definitely should honor their written rules and change if need be for future series going forward.

Link to points breakdown is here

http://www.horseshoehammond.com/imag...ints_Rules.pdf

They specifically list Cash for 1 Point under CPC Numbered Events/Turbo Events so it was not an oversight. 5 Points for the Final 32 in the $1100 HU (with 220 entrants this year, that would be approx 16% of the field) is good points value, but nothing too unreasonable.

I would consider legal action (or threat of legal action) if these 5 points cost you guys the 50K and they don't rectify the situation. People here in LA sued the Bike (successfully I believe, not 100% sure), for adding a heat last-minute to a GTD MTT that was going to overlay, therefore diluting their value.

Also, 3% of the prize pool is withheld for tournament staff (on an event where they raked a ton of re-entries I may add). So why are they bitter he tipped $200 more then he was required to?

2621 Entries x $6 per Entry = $15276 withheld for Staff

http://www.horseshoehammond.com/imag..._Structure.pdf

you seem real

dealers are getting theirs and should stop whining

Here's a link to the Points Rules, the link keeps getting outdated in older posts:
http://www.horseshoehammond.com/imag...ints_Rules.pdf

William is talking to the main tournament director this morning. We will be 100% taking legal action should things not be taken care of this morning.

Just to clarify, this rule was in place last yr. I played a PLO tourney that I finished in 21st but out of the money. The written rules showed a rundown of points given if finished in certain spots, but since I didn't cash, I didn't get the points and subsequently came in 3rd place in the points race 2 points behind the eventual winner.

is bob smith td ing? hes awesome so I'd talk to him. such bs if u dont win

also it is no ones business how much one decides to tip and should def not be made public. shame on that floor/dealer who did

I'm not sure if that's the Tournament Director or not but when William tried to talk to someone in charge this morning they informed him that their lawyers told them they can not speak to him regarding this matter. I can't think of a much worse way to handle the situation as a whole up to this point.

i just tipped all my small chips while the guy doing the work wasn't looking

gl with the situation, were definitely a few problems this series

also sup JC, i was the person who got the gift double up 36o vs AA

i'm glad we redrew