Good luck jzpiano

That's one thing I have no interest in(admin) more paper work, hours, and interacting negatively with a lot of the students...

Props to you

Just got a placement for my internship as a school counselor next year and thought some people in the thread could give me some advice. I'd consider right now that at this point (taking my final 2 courses) that I feel about 90% prepared regarding my ind counseling ability, knowing guidelines/standards etc...I've had a full practicum year prior to this doing ind counseling so that part I feel really good about. On the other hand I feel (as noted many times) like I have no experience w/classroom management and properly interacting with other faculty (mostly teachers)

What are you experiences working with counselors? What is the best way to go about working with teachers? I've heard sometimes teachers want no part in "dealing" with many students I'll likely work with and others who say that they often feel like counselors try working with students without including them (asking about problem areas in class, what they observe day-to-day etc...) Thoughts? How do you feel about students being taken out of class for counseling? (Also have heard of a wide range of experiences about that) I have a million more questions I could ask but I'll start with that.

Is this in a high school?

It's about 50/25/25 break down (HS-MS-Elem)

I have a question for you guys:

How much can you actually get away with (eg profanities, "off-color" jokes, making fun of students) as a high school teacher? If I said something like "we were going to read book X, but that's too fkng boring, so we'll be reading book Y the next couple of weeks", would that fly? What are the consequences if I jokingly make fun of a student's hairstyle or tell a student to "shut the fk up and listen" (calmly ie not screaming)?

There is no way you should be teaching kids.

You can get away with anything until a kid says something to someone. There's not really a set answer.

tjk,

I've had two counselors (both at schools of about 300). The first one was pretty self-absorbed and thought he was a special guy. He thought he was great for kids and teachers were stupid. He thought teachers were stupid when he was in high school, and he generally had the same feelings today (his words). He often took kids out of the core classes to talk to them, which got really annoying.

My current counselor is always busy according to her. The kids have a really negative opinion on her. They tend to think she's "fake busy" and doesn't really do much to help them. She's always swamped with "more important" stuff. I realize that she works a lot, but I can also vouch for the fact that she'll talk about shopping and curtains for my entire 45 minute prep period, and then later in the day she'll say she was swamped and didn't have time to get anything done. I like her, but I can see the kids' complaints.

I never minded when they asked me about the kids' day-to-day activities. That was fine.

I really hated when they assigned bizarre stuff for the IEP and then just expected me to do it without at least throwing a little fit.

I guess this might not help, but I could try to answer more specific questions.

tjk,

At my school we basically have one counselor for each grade level. Roughly 200:1 student-to-counselor ratio, not including the counselor who does college admissions advising. Most of the students I teach are good students with no classroom problems. I have one class where quite a few students have special needs of some sort (dyslexia, ADD, that sort of thing) and/or do poorly in school. I've spoken with some of the counselors informally and had a sit-down meeting with one of them. I'm at a private school where we don't have all the IEP requirements that public schools have to deal with, so I haven't always gotten as much info about students as I'd like.

My advice to you would be to make sure that teachers know what sort of problems they are facing with their students. As a new teacher I've found that generally the counselor has a pretty good idea of what my students are like--I'm probably not going to shock them with any reports of the students' classroom behavior and performance. It'll be a little bit different for you since you'll be new to the school and students. Just try to make sure that you're not excluding the teachers in addressing the students' problems.

smoke,

As Solo said, it just depends. My high school theatre director routinely dropped f-bombs at rehearsal (though he only did it once in the speech class I took). I'm sure many coaches curse plenty at practices. In the classroom it's a bit more strict. Mostly it depends on how likely your kids are to rat on you. That said, I'd like to think I'd never say anything too bad in front of my students. I've said crap, piss, and dammit in front of them and they raised their eyebrows at that, but it wasn't too big a deal.

I gently poke fun at my students (and at myself) all the time. But you have to be careful not to cross any lines and know which students can't take it. I stepped over the line once this semester in poking fun at a student and I felt terrible about it, and I pulled her aside after class to apologize. Also, I steer clear of any comments (positive or negative) about appearances, so I wouldn't say anything about a student's hairstyle. Not worth being accused of sexual harassment.

Well, I am a school counselor so I'll take a crack at this.

The major thing you want to do is be out of your office as much as possible. Two reasons. One your office is boring as hell. Two any good teacher will welcome you into their classroom to observe student behavior, and this helps you get "on the same team" as the teachers.

The counseling office is generally a dumping ground for everything an administrator doesn't want to deal with. By getting out into classrooms you can build your own curriculum and have pro-active responses when your asked how you are dealing with student problems.

At a job interview you will want to be able to talk about classroom experience and being part of the faculty as a whole. Remember the people who will be interviewing you are not involved in mental health in any way. I've had dozens of interviews (being low many on seniority chains now isn't fun but I've gotten 4 jobs in the last 8 years) and never been asked a single question about counseling technique or skill. In fact you should know, you're not a mental health counselor. You want to run groups as an intern as that also what administrators want to hear (ie your efficient with your time).

Good Luck, feel feel to PM me any other questions. I only clicked on this thread by mistake, and don't check it.

Ken

When you say bizarre stuff for the IEP was it that you weren't included in the decisions or basically they assigned stuff to it which made more work for you without at least explaining what they were doing prior?

Both of those examples listed I would say comprise 50% of my graduating class as well which gets annoying already (especially the always busy part/everything is so difficult) They make it pretty clear early on the workload required in the field it gets old hearing about it.

Have you had counselors in your classroom giving presentations ever? Experience with it (what could be improved on?) I'm going to be focusing on a lot of group work but my second semester I'll be required to do some presentations as counselors need to present to all 9th and 11th graders.

This is good to hear as it's re-affirming many of the key points I want to make sure I hit on early next year (keeping teachers involved mostly)

If I'm meeting with one of your students do you want to know about it if it's related to the classroom no matter what? One of my concerns is finding the balance between keeping teachers informed and not seeming like I'm coming to them telling them everything that is discussed between myself and students.

The counselor I'm working with has like a 450-1 student load so I'm not really sure how practical any of my plans are I'm sure some of my ideas will quickly be shot down with those kinds of numbers but I'd like to be prepared either way.

Thanks everyone for your responses I really do appreciate the insight

In the most recent (and worst yet) example, the mother complained her way to seven different accomodations. Individually they weren't all bad, but some seemed entirely unnecessary, especially when you considered how many he got. Front of the room. I have to write his assignments down for him every day, and if I forget to, then he is given two extra days to get the assignment turned in for every day I forgot to write it. I have to accept all late work from him. I have to give him filled out notes if he doesn't take notes (even though for my freshmen, I already use guided notes). It was stuff like this, and the counselor was the only staff member at the meeting. So she basically just caved to this angry parent, and we all were pretty bitter to her about that. (She held the meeting during a class, so no teachers thought it was THAT important to attend).

Note: The kid in question had been diagnosed some time ago with ADD. I'm fine with him getting some help. However, his study skills and focus were still in the upper 50% of my freshmen. I think it's great he gets help, but this was just so ridiculously over the top.

Our counselor comes in to my room only for some basic school presentations. She'll come in to talk about registration process for next year, or for a field trip to a college (for the freshmen). She hasn't done any presentations on mental health or study skills or whatever I assume you're referring to. She's fine.

My biggest recommendation would be "Don't give presentations like a media specialist." I've had two, and they're the absolute worst to listen to. They have no idea how boring they are. I frequently try to rescue my kids from the slow, dry presentations they give.

Right, it's obviously a balancing act. You certainly don't want to overwhelm them. I think it's mostly going to depend upon the individual teacher. For example, as a new teacher I need a lot more information. All of my students are completely new to me. But say you have one French teacher at your school and she's been there for 10 years and teaches all the French classes. Does she really need to hear every detail about a French III student she's taught for years? Probably not. I would say you want to make sure that teachers are up-to-date with IEPs and any changes (or whatever other paperwork your school requires), and beyond that it's up to figuring out what each individual teacher wants and needs.

Tjk,

Sorry I never responded but I've only taught 3 yr. Olds to 8th graders to I didn't feel qualified to answer since you said 50% high school.


I have an interview next week for the AP position at my building (yeah). I feel like I have a big edge since I currently see all students and do admin work, but I don't take anything for granted so I want to be fully prepared especially since this is my first administrator interview. The building is a private Catholic school FYI. Any advice?

1) I can't believe I have been pulled into an education conversation. ugh.

2) what state do you work in? I'm in NY and legally there has to be a special ed teacher, general ed teacher, and ever service provider on the IEP at each meeting to make any changes to an IEP.

Ken