I agree it seems like alot of signs are pointing to this. Kyle Ren calls Snoke 'wise' like Palpatine did. And they can probably tie-in some notion that Plagueis made Anakin Skywalker out of the midi-chlorians somehow or whatever, which is why he's so interested in Kylo Ren. Also apparently the themes that played in the score when Snoke was on screen were similar if not identical to the score that played during Palpatine's story about Plagueis. Also in the novelization of The Force Awakens, Snoke alludes to Ren that he watched the fall of the Republic and the entire Empire Era so he's been alive in some form or another for a long time. So it seems like the strongest theory by far.

But I'm guessing like 95%+ of the audience doesn't know **** about the EU and wasn't paying any attention to Papeltine's speech at the bubble play in Revenge of the Sith.

That means some screen time is going to be spent tediously re-explaining Plagueis's back story to the audience. And it means going back to exposition from the prequels, referencing Anakin's virgin birth origins of the midi-chlorians, and the **** people who are fans mostly just straight up hate, and honestly, other than letting Ewan McGregor do a voice cameo, it seems like LucasFilm/Disney is doing its absolute best to never remind the audience of the prequels.

And then the payoff is pretty tiny, right? It's like a wink-and-a-nod to the biggest fans, sure, but beyond that who was demanding to see Plagueis?

So I agree it seems like that's where they're headed, but it seems like a nod to elements of prequels and the EU most of the audience won't remember or care about and which the biggest fans scoff at. Seems like an odd decision to hearken back to elements of the larger story that they seem otherwise wanting to bury but I suppose if it's explained well or is just interesting or plays out creatively on film, it will go over fine.

There are some well thought out theories and deeper answers to some of the questions that have been asked here. Also seems to support my earlier theory here that Rey had been previously trained as a Padawan and had her mind wiped.

http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-t...ens-questions/

As someone who saw the original Star Wars in the cinema when it came out, who had all the toys, who worshiped the series on bended knee, Lucas' still born episodes 1-3 were bad, really bad.

But this movie from Disney is terrible.

What is the point of it? It is episode 4 rehashed, but with equality! (we have a black guy in the lead!) and femininity! (see how the female lead does not need no man telling her what to do!)

The saddest thing for me was not that they killed off Han Solo. The saddest part was that the character of Rey did not need a mentor. There was no Obi-One or Yoda to teach and guide her. She just picked up a lightsaber and she was good to go. I loved the scene on Hoth when Luke starined with all his might to make his lightsaber fly to him. And when finally in Return of the Jedi he walked into Jabba's palace and kicked serious butt, man, we had been with him on the ride all along. It meant so much. He had really worked for it.

But no mentor here. The message is that today's young do not need mentors. They just naturally kick butt because of GIRRLL Power! and who knows what else.

This is the worst, the very worst of all the Star Wars films. Such a shame.

By the end of the original, Han & Chewie had spent almost the entire movie with Luke. They'd been through adventures. They'd fought together. They'd bonded. It made perfect sense that Han & Chewie would risk their lives to help Luke.


This movie skipped all the bonding. It had essentially total strangers risking their lives for each other. Finn went from ready to flee to the furthest reaches of the galaxy to bull****ting his way onto an insanely risky mission. Why? Because he thought Rey was hot?

I liked the movie a lot, but Finn was probably the biggest issue I had with it. Not because of anything John Boyega did, just that nothing about his personality or actions seemed to fit with his backstory. That's got to be the worst child soldier indoctrination program ever.

Sadly agree. I find it offensive. What made the original so great was that it was like nothing we had seen before.



http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/19...e-similarities

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the...-star-wars-yet

So we've established that anyone over the age of 40 hates episode VII even more than I-III - we get it, you're old.

I still think Supreme Leader might be Plagueis, but as someone pointed out his backstory being very complicated and unknown, a simpler solution might just be Supreme Leader being Palpatine.

In the original canon, Palpatine was meant to return as a force ghost or spirit or something and basically wreak havok all over again against the kids of Luke and Han/Leia. Perhaps Disney's using the same story......or perhaps Snoke is just an original character

Exactly, the folks who saw Hope in the theaters didn't want/need a soft reboot. They wanted decent new material not a Disneyfied getting the gang back reunion flick.

I wonder if Lucas is horrified or laughing all the way to the bank. JK Rowling would never let this happen to Harry Potter.

Late 20s and I agree with you (although would say TFA almost on par with Clones/Sith)

So you're just proving my point

TFA was obviously just 'good' at best - but my point was that anyone who was old enough to see TOS in theatres is going to hate this movie.

Probably for the same reasons of when there's an Avengers reboot in 30 years I'm going to hate it

I agree that Snoke = Plagueis brings up some exposition problems in further movies. However, it is a nice solution to the problem of how do you have someone wise and powerful from the dark side at the ready to turn Kylo Ren. With the weird Sith rule of 2, you don't have many options. Palpatine is a good one, but that figure does not look like Palpatine.

Plenty of older than 40 people liked or loved the movie. This thread does not come anywhere close to representing what people thought of the movie.

47 years old. Saw New Hope in theater and waited in pouring rain for hours to see Jedi. Loved them and thought this one was excellent.

Yes, there are holes and some nitpicking (especially the lightsaber battle), but all in all it was fun.

To me it felt like an homage to New Hope and an introduction to the next phase of the saga. There is some great opportunity to have Luke be a major player which I did not think would be possible. I also love the pivot around Luke trying to save his father, and then repeating the mistakes of Obi-Wan and having to try to save his nephew via training a new Jedi. I'm stoked for the future possibilities.

I have no idea where this nonsense is coming from other than the typical douchebag attitude of LOLolds!

Like most loungers I am legit old and I think that those of us who saw the original trilogy when it came out as adults are very happy with the new installment. It has that original Star Wars feel and brings back the characters that drew us in in the first place. I may be speaking only for myself but I wanted a continuation of the original story and in that sense the Force Awakens delivers.

My guess would be the youngs who picked up on Star Wars after it had already been around for years are far more critical because they weren't there at the beginning and didn't see the impact these movies had when originally released meaning they are as culturally attached to the franchise.

I'm 50, and loved it.

But I am ******ed.

But that's exactly what Luke did when he saw a hologram story of Leia needing help. He's never even met her and he's all about sneaking onto the Death Star on an insanely risky mission to help her escape.

FWIW 95% of the problems people have cited in TFA were just as manifest (and blissfully ignored) in the original trilogy.

To be fair, Luke wasn't going to go with Obi Wan till Stormtroopers killed his aunt and uncle. That does give him a reasonable amount of motivation. Plus, he displays a strong desire to leave Tattooine to go to "The Academy".

I also think "problems" with IV-VI are only as a result of the prequels. So for example, no one had a problem with Luke's training in the original trilogy till they had a Jedi academy with younglings in I-III.

It wasn't a problem because the Star Wars world/canon hadn't been developed yet. Yet Lucas wasn't that stupid to have Luke pick up a light saber for the first time and have him hold his own. His "force" powers were around his flying ability which he trained for a long time.

Lol @ adsman sexism and racism. That's why we need this.

I'm fine with her having some powers without training, because it seems like she's simply the GOAT Jedi. And also yea, it's important to have capable and powerful women in film - more important than strictly following "Jedi canon".

Wouldn't it be even better to have a strong and capable woman working to make herself stronger and more capable rather than simply handing her superpowers?

My tinfoil theory (besides Supreme Leader = Plagueis) is that Finn is also force-sensitive.

Facts:

-The way Ren stopped and looked at Finn after the raid on Jakku. Arguments can be made that he just sensed the fear or anger in Finn, but it doesn't rule out Finn having some connection to the force.

-"There has been an awakening - have you felt it?" doesn't necessarily refer to only a single being (Rey) ("There have been several awakenings - have you felt them?" Just sounds weird)

-Would explain why Finn somewhat held his own against Ren, despite what I said earlier being true (Ren being arrogant, toying with him, injured etc.)

If Finn infact is force-sensitive, it's almost certain he isn't aware of it

Would also open up sweet potential storylines for ep 8/9: Rey turning to the dark side and either killing Kylo and taking his place or forcing Kylo to return to the light and train Finn etc.

I stopped reading the Wheel of Time series when everybody started becoming a ****ing Special Snowflake. I hope that doesn't happen more in the Star Wars universe than it already has.


There has to be room for the guy who wasn't born to greatness, who doesn't have some innate advantage over everyone else. That's part of the appeal of Han Solo. He's a guy whose background matters much less than what he's doing now.

Movie seemed too fast paced and rushed. It didn't seem like there was hardly any time that advanced. At least in the prequels and original trilogy, you can tell all of this planning took some time. And I think they shot their load with the starkiller. What happens now is that there is no real credible threat to the resistance.

At first I also thought that kylo should have fared better in the lightsaber battles. But as I thought about it, it made sense that he looked as weak as he did. We see more than once kylo throw tantrums when things don't go his way. He also has probably never been challenged due to lack of Jedi and actual fighting. So while he is made to look strong, it's only relative to everyone else he is around. He is still fairly early in his training.

On the other side, we know that both Finn and Rey have quite extensive fight training. So combine a weak, unchallenged apprentice against those two and they're bound to do something against him.

Finn is obviously Mace Windu's grandson.

yeah okay, joking.

I have little doubt Rey is a Skywalker though. Max Von Sydow was on Jakku to watch over her, as asked by Luke, who left him a way to find Luke if he were ever needed/the bad guys discovered she was his daughter. The musical motifs were Skywalker motifs. The dialogue all hinted she was a Skywalker heir. And one particular motif they used that I really liked was you saw Rey actively become serene before unleashing her inner jedi.

Also Poe was definitely based on Ace Rimmer

Maybe Finn wakes up from his coma and it's all been a dream. He's actually being tortured to death by a guy in a pig mask.

Hadn't thought of Max von Sydow taking care of Rey. That makes sense.