Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

The Lounge: Discussion+Review For discussion and debate about arts, movies+TV, music, reading+literature, style, fashion, history, culture and many more subjects

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-26-2014, 04:14 PM   #1
KennyJPowers
adept
 
KennyJPowers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,168
Plot holes in Great movies

Has anyone noticed any plot holes or things that don,t make sense in movies that are regarded as top quality i have noticed a few.

In Godfather Part 2 when the rizzoto brothers attempt to kill Frank Pentangeli the guy that strangles him say something like 'Michael Corleone says hello'. Why would he say this since Michael didn't sanction the hit? and unless he knew that the policman was going to walk in at that exact moment and wanted him to almost kill him and then flip on michael it makes no sense. Always left me confused that scene

Last edited by KennyJPowers; 07-26-2014 at 04:21 PM.
KennyJPowers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 06:58 PM   #2
hobbes9324
veteran
 
hobbes9324's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Reno
Posts: 2,080
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

I bitched about this in the original movie discussion thread, but in The Wolf of Wall Street a major plot event hinges on the hero having to be in Switzerland in 24 hours or else - which results in them sinking his yacht in a huge storm. Apparently, using THE ****ING HELICOPTER on the yacht wasn't an option. Bugged the **** out of me.

MM MD
hobbes9324 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 07:09 PM   #3
MSchu18
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MSchu18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 13,166
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Wizard of Oz... There were not any young munchkins... How did the species repopulate?
MSchu18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 10:06 PM   #4
I_AM_EVIL
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
I_AM_EVIL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: It's an extraordinary xylophone.
Posts: 12,860
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchu18 View Post
Wizard of Oz... There were not any young munchkins... How did the species repopulate?
uhhhh
I_AM_EVIL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 11:02 PM   #5
kioshk
Nixonian
 
kioshk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: now Watergate does not bother me
Posts: 89,972
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

An Inconvenient Truth. The hole in the Ozone yo!
kioshk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 11:56 PM   #6
MSchu18
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MSchu18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 13,166
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Pick any michael moore film.... pick and scene... pick any offer of proof he touts as gospel.
MSchu18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 12:00 AM   #7
kioshk
Nixonian
 
kioshk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: now Watergate does not bother me
Posts: 89,972
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Man, I can't stand that Michael Moore, what a buffoon.
kioshk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 06:19 AM   #8
KennyJPowers
adept
 
KennyJPowers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,168
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

As a non American i think Michael more is great Bowling for Columbine is one of my favorite documentaries and Sicko was good too.

Why the hate for him?
KennyJPowers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 06:56 AM   #9
KennyJPowers
adept
 
KennyJPowers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,168
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Another gripe i have with GF2 is the Michael attempted Murder scene in his compound.

What was fredo's part considering its supposed to be where he betrayed Michael, did he let in the assassins? who opened the curtains in there bedroom?

Then after the hit attempt did these assassins not have a plan of escape was it a suicide mission? Michael says he wants them alive but they end up dead somehow
KennyJPowers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 07:16 AM   #10
DeuceKicker1
centurion
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 182
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Regarding Moore, I like his books/films overall even though he famously uses a couple of techniques in his documentaries that his critics hate him for.

One of his movies that I disliked however was Bowling for Columbine (which won an Oscar). Early in the movie he spends time making a reasonable point that presence of guns don’t necessarily correlate with increased violence. (BTW, I am not a gun owner/”gun nut”). Later on, as if he was ignoring his own argument, there’s a segment where he leads a group - including a school shooting victim - into a K-mart (?) store to protest the store’s selling of bullets.

That isn’t a “plot hole” per se, but it really bothered me. What bothered me even more was Moore focused almost entirely on the guns-violence issue, but spent hardly any time on the killers or the chief problems (imo) leading to the titular Columbine tragedy - school bullying, alienation, etc.
DeuceKicker1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 09:27 AM   #11
zikzak
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
zikzak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 18,756
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyJPowers View Post
As a non American i think Michael more is great Bowling for Columbine is one of my favorite documentaries and Sicko was good too.

Why the hate for him?
Because he undermines his own movies with manipulative and dishonest appeals to emotion. His stories are strong enough to be played straight, but he heaps on a pile of propaganda anyways. It's irritating.
zikzak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 09:49 AM   #12
JonnyA
veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,019
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyJPowers View Post
Another gripe i have with GF2 is the Michael attempted Murder scene in his compound.

What was fredo's part considering its supposed to be where he betrayed Michael, did he let in the assassins? who opened the curtains in there bedroom?

Then after the hit attempt did these assassins not have a plan of escape was it a suicide mission? Michael says he wants them alive but they end up dead somehow
Just watched it yesterday and looked into this issue. According to original script, Fredo thought it was going to be a kidnapping not a hit, so I believe that he did open the blinds to help out.

Regarding them being killed I think the implication is that they were killed by their own men. Likely someone had a car or boat waiting to help them getaway, but killed them instead to be safe so they could not talk (could have been Fredo, but that seems like a stretch).

Regarding the Pantangelli hit, I think you're right that it was to get him to turn on Michael and the cop walking in was planned by Roth (I'm sure he had plenty of cops on his payroll). Killing Pantangelli doesn't really help Roth with Michael, but having him caught does (even if he doesn't rat on Michael, it still hurts Michael's standing in NYC if people think he turned on his own family to help Roth).
JonnyA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 09:52 AM   #13
MSUJew
journeyman
 
MSUJew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: +/- 2 standard deviations
Posts: 370
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyJPowers View Post
Has anyone noticed any plot holes or things that don,t make sense in movies that are regarded as top quality i have noticed a few.

In Godfather Part 2 when the rizzoto brothers attempt to kill Frank Pentangeli the guy that strangles him say something like 'Michael Corleone says hello'. Why would he say this since Michael didn't sanction the hit? and unless he knew that the policman was going to walk in at that exact moment and wanted him to almost kill him and then flip on michael it makes no sense. Always left me confused that scene

----------------------------------------------------

Another gripe i have with GF2 is the Michael attempted Murder scene in his compound.

What was fredo's part considering its supposed to be where he betrayed Michael, did he let in the assassins? who opened the curtains in there bedroom?

Then after the hit attempt did these assassins not have a plan of escape was it a suicide mission? Michael says he wants them alive but they end up dead somehow
You should re-watch the movie.
MSUJew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 10:34 AM   #14
Thug Bubbles
Pooh-Bah
 
Thug Bubbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,109
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyJPowers View Post
As a non American i think Michael more is great Bowling for Columbine is one of my favorite documentaries and Sicko was good too.

Why the hate for him?
He pretends to be a documentarian while contorting footage/images/audio out of context to goad you into way of thought. For example, there's a scene in Bowling For Columbine where he uses a case of a bank offering a free rifle with a new account as a microcosm of America's "gun problem". Ignoring the fact that there's nothing ****ing wrong with giving a free rifle as a marketing tool, he structured the scene to make it seem like you could walk into a bank, sign up for an account, and walk out with a gun (and go do evil with your tool of destruction, i guess?). But the bank first does a background check, so he came back days later and shot footage of him walking down the bank steps with a rifle in hand and spliced it against him signing the account registration. The bank didn't even keep the rifles at their office, so the dude literally took the rifle back to the bank and pretended like he walked out with the ****ing thing, conveniently leaving out the part where they ran a background check. These types of creative editing choices are rampant in all his movies.

Dude is a dis-ingenuous twit. I say this as somebody who absolutely loved Bowling for Columbine, and Fahrenheit 9/11 when I first watched them.
Thug Bubbles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 10:42 AM   #15
KennyJPowers
adept
 
KennyJPowers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,168
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyA View Post
Just watched it yesterday and looked into this issue. According to original script, Fredo thought it was going to be a kidnapping not a hit, so I believe that he did open the blinds to help out.

Regarding them being killed I think the implication is that they were killed by their own men. Likely someone had a car or boat waiting to help them getaway, but killed them instead to be safe so they could not talk (could have been Fredo, but that seems like a stretch).

Regarding the Pantangelli hit, I think you're right that it was to get him to turn on Michael and the cop walking in was planned by Roth (I'm sure he had plenty of cops on his payroll). Killing Pantangelli doesn't really help Roth with Michael, but having him caught does (even if he doesn't rat on Michael, it still hurts Michael's standing in NYC if people think he turned on his own family to help Roth).
Interesting stuff.

Another thing is that the Pantangelli hit seems to happen at a important period. Roth wants him dead to take all suspicion away from himself for the hit, Michael confides in roth that Pantangelli tried to have him killed and roth jumps at the oportunity to kill him and take all suspicion away from himself.
You have to remember also michael is in a deal with roth at the time and having Pantangelli kept alive by the rissoto brothers who are backed by roth in a messed up a hit on purpose is not going to be benificial for that deal.
KennyJPowers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 10:48 AM   #16
KennyJPowers
adept
 
KennyJPowers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,168
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSUJew View Post
You should re-watch the movie.
I must of seen it 20 times it still feels like the parts im talking about are very muddled and not clear in what there tring to say
KennyJPowers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 10:53 AM   #17
KennyJPowers
adept
 
KennyJPowers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,168
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thug Bubbles View Post
He pretends to be a documentarian while contorting footage/images/audio out of context to goad you into way of thought. For example, there's a scene in Bowling For Columbine where he uses a case of a bank offering a free rifle with a new account as a microcosm of America's "gun problem". Ignoring the fact that there's nothing ****ing wrong with giving a free rifle as a marketing tool, he structured the scene to make it seem like you could walk into a bank, sign up for an account, and walk out with a gun (and go do evil with your tool of destruction, i guess?). But the bank first does a background check, so he came back days later and shot footage of him walking down the bank steps with a rifle in hand and spliced it against him signing the account registration. The bank didn't even keep the rifles at their office, so the dude literally took the rifle back to the bank and pretended like he walked out with the ****ing thing, conveniently leaving out the part where they ran a background check. These types of creative editing choices are rampant in all his movies.

Dude is a dis-ingenuous twit. I say this as somebody who absolutely loved Bowling for Columbine, and Fahrenheit 9/11 when I first watched them.
Yea i understand what you are saying im guessing his editing process uses his footage to tread the line between fact and fiction for the benifit of the movie

One Gripe i had with sicko is the way he made the NHS look like a healthcare dream when in reality it is free yess but it is a million miles away from perfect
KennyJPowers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 10:59 AM   #18
Didace
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Didace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 11,471
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thug Bubbles View Post
Dude is a dis-ingenuous twit.
This can't be emphasized enough.
Didace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 12:02 PM   #19
mrbaseball
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: shortstacked on the bubble
Posts: 8,867
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Rewatched 12 Angry Men for the umpteenth time yesterday. The knife? They said he claimed the he had lost his knife through a hole in his pocket. They said the wound was made with a knife "similar" to this knife. Where in the hell did they get the knife in evidence?
mrbaseball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 12:04 PM   #20
mrbaseball
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: shortstacked on the bubble
Posts: 8,867
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

And yeah, Moore is the biggest douchebag ever to draw a breath.
mrbaseball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 12:16 PM   #21
Cranberry Tea
Pooh-Bah
 
Cranberry Tea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,564
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Re-watched Star Wars recently. Ya know that bit where Luke uses a grappling hook to swing across that chasm? Where did he get that from? Is it common for farmers on Tattooine to carry grappling hooks around in their pants?
Cranberry Tea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 01:34 PM   #22
MSchu18
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MSchu18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 13,166
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thug Bubbles View Post
He pretends to be a documentarian while contorting footage/images/audio out of context to goad you into way of thought.

Dude is a dis-ingenuous twit. I say this as somebody who absolutely loved Bowling for Columbine, and Fahrenheit 9/11 when I first watched them.
^ perfect...

Though I think calling Michael Moore Disingenuous is being kind in my humble O. Some of his... speculations... boarder on being criminally irresponsible, even though nothing he does in a free society is illegal.
MSchu18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 02:56 PM   #23
hobbes9324
veteran
 
hobbes9324's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Reno
Posts: 2,080
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Dunno how we're picking "Great" movies, but a guilty pleasure of mine is Gross Point Blank. Lots of fun.

But at the end, there's been a huge shoot out, probably a dozen dead agents/hired killers scattered around his girlfriends estate, and they drive out of town with the radio on to a happy ending. They must have VERY understanding cops in the burbs of Detroit. It felt like the writer couldn't come up with an ending that could work out, said "**** it, I'm done, cashed the check", and tacked on the above.

MM MD
hobbes9324 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 03:05 PM   #24
lastcardcharlie
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
lastcardcharlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: QED, I think
Posts: 7,493
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

- During their meeting at Roth's house, Michael asks for permission to kill Pentangeli.

- Roth agrees. "He's small potatoes."

- Michael has no intention of killing Pentangeli, but Roth doesn't know this.

- Roth decides to fake the hit, in order to discredit Michael.

Is that it?
lastcardcharlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 05:30 PM   #25
Dominic
Tripod
 
Dominic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Vegas
Posts: 60,181
Re: Plot holes in Great movies

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbaseball View Post
Rewatched 12 Angry Men for the umpteenth time yesterday. The knife? They said he claimed the he had lost his knife through a hole in his pocket. They said the wound was made with a knife "similar" to this knife. Where in the hell did they get the knife in evidence?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm
Dominic is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online