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05-13-2009 , 09:20 PM
on the tow path. this is spelled out afew sentences later, but i kind of hoped it was clear from the fact that he was near a canal and it is implied he is not on a boat. is it really not clear?
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05-13-2009 , 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmcdmck
Thoughts on my opening few lines for a short story?

"The bright sun's warmth counteracted the blustering wind. Joe was glad to be wearing T-shirt and shorts. The wind grew stronger, but still Joe was glad. His skin felt fresh and clean. A grey haired man wearing glasses and a green wool jumper with patched elbows cried "Good morning!" from a canal boat named "Old Rosie II" as she chugged towards him."
-- The sun's warmth is not counteracting the blustering wind, but the effect of the blustering wind, I imagine; that is, the wind's cool. This is misworded.
-- "counteracted" is quite a mouthful of a word, and it looms up like a mountain in the middle of this sentence. It's a natural fit for words like "pharmaceuticals," but not when you want to get in and out of a sensual feeling like the warmth of the sun, the cool of a breeze, or the subtleties of the one quarreling with the other on the surface of one's skin.
-- "still Joe was glad." Even with the follow-up sentence about his skin feeling fresh and clean, this is a little awkward. Is a mere wind, which is even here impliedly too strong anyway, enough to make him glad, or is it something else making him glad, and the increasing wind simply not enough to derail the gladness that had previously besotted him?
-- "grey haired" should have a hyphen
-- "A grey haired man wearing glasses and a green wool jumper with patched elbows cried "Good morning!" from a canal boat named "Old Rosie II" There is something a bit removed rather than direct here. Compare perhaps to: "A grey-haired man wearing glasses and a green wool jumper with patched elbows cried, "Good morning!" from his canal boat, the "Old Rosie II"
-- See how you feel about changing the rest of the sentence, "as she chugged towards him" from passive to active, something like this: "as he piloted it ..." The fellow may not be doing the steering, but whether this substitution fits well or not, what I am getting at is the change from active to passive. The boat is not being guided by an invisible or even passive hand, but ... someone is guiding it. Action is happening and people are doing rather than being done to. Making things active rather than passive imparts vigor and immediacy to a scene, and also its characters. By saying the boat is being piloted and who is doing the piloting, not only is the description more vivid, but so is the grey-haired old man himself. He is now a doer, not a done to. We don't wonder what he's doing; we know what he's doing -- steering a boat. If you are missing the chug, you can still find a way to get it in elsewhere, as in something like, "as he careened the last lurch of her chugging frame expertly into a smooth arc toward the slip." I chose the word "frame" because I don't know anything about boats and it was the best I could come up with at the moment. But any noun will do. You can get the feeling of the chugging in there one way or another if you play around with the words a bit.
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05-13-2009 , 10:36 PM
Thanks Blarg. Definitely some things to think about, and even where I disagree with your advice, it was informative: it illustrates that I was not successful in creating my desired effect. Those sentences are going to be awesomeified and then reposted :P
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05-13-2009 , 10:41 PM
Although a point I will pick at, because I want to work out the truth of the matter: is it not standard and acceptable English to use the phrase "blustering wind" as shorthand for "the effects of the blustering wind"?
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05-13-2009 , 10:42 PM
Cool, I look forward to seeing it.
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05-13-2009 , 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmcdmck
Although a point I will pick at, because I want to work out the truth of the matter: is it not standard and acceptable English to use the phrase "blustering wind" as shorthand for "the effects of the blustering wind"?
I don't automatically associate temperature with wind because some winds are warm, some are hot, some are very hot. And some winds can be light but very cold, while others can be strong and feel like they have no particular temperature at all.

There also still exists the problem that on close reading the sentence is simply not technically correct. Warmth does not stop wind. A windbreaker or a rolled up window might.

This is one of those times where the question is not so much, "Does it work?," but "Is it worth trying to make this the best it could be?"

Generally, the latter question is much more interesting and productive.

Not necessarily for a first draft, though, when you don't need to second-guess yourself too much. But once it's out there, yeah.

Last edited by Blarg; 05-13-2009 at 10:52 PM.
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05-13-2009 , 10:47 PM
One small note: "blustery" should be used rather than "blustering."
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05-13-2009 , 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmcdmck
on the tow path. this is spelled out afew sentences later, but i kind of hoped it was clear from the fact that he was near a canal and it is implied he is not on a boat. is it really not clear?
It's clear he's not on the boat, but it's not clear where he is. Why not just locate him from the beginning.
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05-13-2009 , 10:50 PM
ah, nice catch, thanks

*edit re your point about locating him*

there is only so much you can explicitly spell out in the opening few sentences. the fact the he is on the tow path is a pretty mundane (although i admit important) point that i hope would become obvious from the others facts, and so render spelling it out redundant. when it is spelt out later it is because there is something on the path, which makes spelling it out pretty unavoidable.
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05-13-2009 , 11:53 PM
Well i redid the first half, and am much happier with it. comments are obviously still appreciated:

"The blustery wind gave Joe goosebumps, despite the warm sun. In T-shirt and shorts, the clean fresh tingle on his skin was invigorating."

The second half I actually purposely wrote passively, so try and suggest the laziness and the terrible handling of canal boats, and the very relaxed, passive nature of canal boating. Perhaps this was unsuccesful though, or perhaps it is better active regardless. Anyway, this is what I came up with:

"A grey-haired man wearing glasses and a green wool jumper with patched elbows cried "Good morning!" as he idly piloted a canal boat, "Old Rosie II", towards him."
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05-14-2009 , 12:15 AM
-- "The blustery wind gave Joe goosebumps, despite the warm sun" Think about these alternatives: The blustery wind gave Joe goosebumps despite the warm sun, and, The blustery wind gave Joe goosebumps in the warm sun.
-- I like your second bit about the grey-haired guy much better now. I do have a small quibble with the word "idly" though, because I think it is an unintentional substitution for what you are meaning to communicate. He is obviously not idle because he is doing something, that is, piloting the boat. He could be idly looking about at the horizon or seabirds or the like, but the piloting part isn't really idle. There may be something about him that conveys that sort of feeling, though, even while you understand the active responsibility of guiding the boat. He could have a sleepy look that a night out fishing, or a very early morning, might explain, or be slouched against the wheel or in a captain's chair, be scratching himself instead of really paying attention, etc.
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05-14-2009 , 12:40 AM
yeah i thought that too, except, piloting a canal boat really requires dick all focus or effort, and i wanted to convey that it didnt look look like he was putting much effort into the piloting. idley probably is the wrong word none the less. maybe:

"A grey-haired man wearing glasses and a green wool jumper with patched elbows cried "Good morning!" as he leisurely piloted a canal boat, "Old Rosie II", towards him."

im not sure how much i like the introduction of the idea that the man is doing it as a leasure activity, but otherwise i think the word is superior.

what effect is the removal of the comma in the first sentence meant to have? i think the second alternative you suggested makes the sentence sound a little flat, and has a slightly strange emphasis.
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05-14-2009 , 01:37 AM
Re the two sentence variations on the sun and wind effects, the first suggestion speeds the sentence up and also does a bit of what the second sentence does, but with less irony. The second sentence is also more crisp but has an inherent irony to it. I think that adds power to it all by itself, but speeding a sentence along also adds a bit of power, so you have a double whammy of improvement there.

The comma you interject before "despite" provides a beat in the sentence, dividing it in two. This is perhaps better suited to contemplation than simple description.

I'm not saying your sentence is anything like bad. Just providing some ideas to toss around in your head and see if they might work a bit better for you. If you are more comfortable with your sentence as is, I don't see this as a major matter. I just want to be sure you understand the reasons for my suggestions. They may or not be your style though. I generally like fiction, no matter how complex, with no bumps in the road that aren't strictly necessary or for precisely calculated effect. Sensual things especially are often best practically inhaled off the page than chewed through like a tough steak. No gristle might be one of my mottos.

Re: the use of the word leisurely, I think it would be a good idea, if you keep it, to explain what about his manner of handling the boat is leisurely. The word suggests that question, and providing the answer could give you a chance to build the scene and the man's character.

There might be some improvement possible by supplying a more concrete word picture than you get with "leisurely," too. I'm not sure the best way to put it in that sentence, but I'm thinking in my mind's eye of someone "lazily spinning the wheel" or turning the wheel in one direction while gazing absent-mindedly in the other until the hero's face sparks recognition in him and he starts to wave. You might have to restructure the sentence, though to get that effect.

"A grey-haired man in a patched green wool jumper lazily spun the wheel of his canal boat, the Old Rosie II, one way while turning his head the other to watch sea gulls picking at the the scraps of hot dog bun tourists tossed on the pier overhead. Joe waited for him to show the least worry about where he was going, but it didn't happen. He saw Joe and waved."

I'm not saying this is what to write or the way to write, just illustrating some concepts. Throw the words away and steal any concepts you like.

Note the difference in sentence lengths; the sentences get shorter. The first sentence is quite long, the second still long but shorter, and the final sentence is like the quick pay-off to a joke after a more protracted set-up. It picks up speed to land with a snap.

Note also the difference in pay-offs. Your original bit ends with "towards him." This is the most dull part of the sentence because it is merely descriptive and mechanical. All the pay-off comes up front in your earlier description of the particulars of the man. "He saw Joe and waved," by contrast, ends with a pay-off of the psychological build-up that the other parts of the passage were leading up to -- the resolution of a mind game that both men may think they have won, each thinking the other man a bit more agreeably foolish than himself, with a friendly greeting despite their small rivalries.

I gave myself more sentences than you provided, of course, and I'm probably not making a fair comparison at all. The impact of your paragraph's end may still be brewing in sentences to come, or you may be setting up a series of impressions that do not need to come to any kind of a head in this particular paragraph. But forget the writing and turn over in your head the principles.

The main thing I was trying to get across was that precise description anchors an environment and characters in the reader's head and makes him start to relax and feel it is safe to trust the author; it gives the reader an "in" to the story right away. The reader desperately wants this because he is really trying to like you. He probably even spent money on the gamble of liking you. So help him out. Vague words and phrases have little weight and should be avoided.

I also stumbled across some opportunities to talk about speed, fluidity, and rhythm, but they may not be as important in this instance as the concreteness of description.

Last edited by Blarg; 05-14-2009 at 01:42 AM.
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05-14-2009 , 08:29 AM
I think I need to include more sentences to show you were the paragraph is going. not in this post though :P i will mention that the purpose of the old man in the canal boat is just to trigger a thought in Joe's head, rather than to initiate more interaction.
anyway:

A grey-haired man wearing glasses and a green wool jumper with patched elbows leisurely working the tiller of an approaching canal boat, "Old Rosie II", cried "Good morning!"

re the first sentence, i defnitely do not want to introduce any irony. maybe removing the comma is better, im not sure. it just feels like there should be a comma there, and i pause a little there even without one.
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05-14-2009 , 09:49 AM
Often it's best not to use commas as if they were parts of speech rather than parts of written language. You can get into a lot of outright error using commas as pauses, and written language varies from spoken quite a bit even when informal. Commas can also hypercontrol the reader's response when he would be better trusted to find the natural rhythm of a sentence on his own.
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05-14-2009 , 11:30 AM
Quote:
I think I need to include more sentences to show you were the paragraph is going. not in this post though :P i will mention that the purpose of the old man in the canal boat is just to trigger a thought in Joe's head, rather than to initiate more interaction.
anyway:
If this is the case, then why don't you stay with Joe. That is, let Joe notice the guy piloting the boat but eliminate the man calling out to Joe.
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05-14-2009 , 12:03 PM
nice thought. i will mess about to see if i can do this without messing up the flow.
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05-14-2009 , 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Cole
If this is the case, then why don't you stay with Joe. That is, let Joe notice the guy piloting the boat but eliminate the man calling out to Joe.
thats what I was thinking. Breaking up this up into two parts sounds better imo.
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05-20-2009 , 06:34 PM
Here is a thing of beauty from Amazon's daily sale section:
Quote:
Expand your stapling horizons ...
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05-22-2009 , 05:28 PM
Due to my involvement with the Flash Fiction contest I am forbidden from making my own entry, but here is a flash fiction story I wrote last year for a flash fiction contest called New York City Midnight Madness.

The rules for their contest are simple. At midnight on Friday you receive three things you MUST incorporate into your flash fiction story: 1) the genre, 2) the location, 3) an object. You then have 48 hours to write and submit your story (until Sunday at midnight). Those stories are scored by a panel of judges. The writers with the highest scores (1-5) advance to the next round, when they must wait until Friday at midnight to do it all over again with a new set of criteria.

For this story, mine were: 1) historical fiction, 2) a subway, 3) a pencil

Once taking this story from the competition I made some alterations, most noticeably changing the location from the subway to the family's home.

This story will be published in the forthcoming issue of The Rose & Thorn.

If we could generate enough interest in our flash fiction contest I would LOVE to hold our own version of NYCMM, but I fear our busy lives (i.e. addiction to pokerz....) would prevent many of us from such a heavy commitment. Still, if anyone was interested, we could do it just for workshop kicks.

All That Remains

Father snapped my wand in two, but the magic remains. If we are to survive tonight, it has to.

Tonight, four Gestapo men enter our house. Under the table, Mother grasps my hand. One of the men identifies himself as "Hauptsturmführer Friedburg" and orders us to forget our dinner and follow him. Father sets down his pencil and stands, leaving behind the sheaf of papers from his next speech at the Temple. Mother and I stand with Father, but none of us move. We have no doubt where Friedburg intends to take us.

Weeks ago, Father's eyes red but his voice steady, he warned Mother that once the Gestapo learned of his speeches against their practices, they would no longer see us as insignificant. The next time they came, it would mean the end of our family.

"When the time comes," he had said, "do not be afraid. God rewards those who attempt great things. If they have faith."

With a sad glance at me, perhaps suspecting a girl my age wouldn't understand, he'd finally decided to simply embrace me and kiss me on the head.

Now I glance at the two split ends of my now-broken magic wand lying on the ground and hear the words he spoke hours ago.

The winds of aggression stir in our homeland, Father had shared with the Temple. I can still hear the crowd cheering him on. They wish to make us disappear, as though we will so easily be forgotten. But no man can erase what makes us Jews! No man can take our faith, the very thing that will remain long after we have gone!

Previously a scholar, Father speaks now almost exclusively about the war and what he fears is an impending devastation for our people, insisting that even in our darkest hour, God is still with us.

He wants me to follow in his footsteps as a scholar. But now on my way to becoming a woman, the only thing I have written are stories, nothing close to essays on philosophy and religion. Earlier, as I offered to use my magic to cook dinner so Mother would not have to slave in the kitchen, Father, fed up with my dreams of something he didn't understand, took my wand and snapped it in two.

All that remains is the decision to stand up, he had told the Temple. God rewards those who attempt great things. If we but remain faithful!

I hadn't understood earlier that evening what his speech meant. But tonight, when the guards burst into our home and demand we board a train with no destination, I know. The wand doesn't matter. All I need is a new wand and God will reward me for the courage to save us. The magic remains, and if I just have faith, so will our family.

"We leave," Friedburg says. "Now!"

Father smiles sadly at me. "Yallah, my daughter." Quickly, let's go.

"It's okay," I tell him.

He takes my mother's hand and reaches for mine. He doesn't understand that upstairs, the very pencil he gave me to write with will be our salvation. "Be strong," he says.

"I will, Poppa."

His fingers brush over mine.

God rewards those who do great things, Father had said. If they have faith.

If.

If.

If.

I pull my fingers from his and run for the stairs.

"Sarah," my mother shouts. "Don't--!"

A gunshot fires as I reach the first stair. Courage makes me quick. I dare a glance behind me, and know a hint of magic remains. A bullet has passed through me, leaving a smoking hole in the wall.

I reach the top of the stairs and run into my room. I lock the door.

On the table next to my still unmade bed rests the papers containing my next story and a fresh pencil, new because Father claimed it would help me write. I grab the pencil only to jump as the soldiers bang on the door.

I back up against the window and look out at the neighborhood, at the homes of friends that, God willing, we will see again. Across the street, my best friend, Beth, peeks out from behind the curtains. No doubt she and her family saw the Gestapo enter our house. They hide because they fear the same attention we've gained. They want to help, but don't know how.

The thought emboldens me. Once they see me drop to the ground, light as a feather, they'll know. God rewards those who attempt great things.

It's a steep drop, enough for Father to more than once have demanded I keep the windows shut. One fall would break my legs, he said. Or worse.

The Gestapo men slam against the door. It's too high. They won't be able to follow me. I open the window, step onto the ledge, and spread my arms.

Magic, God, whatever it is, has to be real. If we are to survive this night, it must be.

I pause. My finger passes through a small, burned hole where the bullet passed through the dress, not through me.

I shake off the thought. There can be no room for doubt. Only for faith. The magic is real.

The guards blow apart the lock and burst into the room. They train their guns on me but do not fire. That right is for Friedburg, and in he comes, gun raised, but he betrays himself at the sight of me standing on the edge of the window, lowers the gun.

"Don't be a fool," he says. "At least have some dignity." And raises the gun again.

Real.

It must be. It must be.

As I hear a gunshot, I wave the wand, close my eyes, and leap.
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06-05-2009 , 03:39 PM
I'm thinking about whether you'll agree or not if we organize monthly short story contests? Members will vote for the best story...
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06-05-2009 , 08:57 PM
Just found this thread;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlord.
I'm thinking about whether you'll agree or not if we organize monthly short story contests? Members will vote for the best story...
would be excellent.
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10-06-2009 , 07:49 PM
Hey guys I have a question about writing a book. I wrote something in a linear narrative... but it doesn't feel completely right so I am considering making it nonlinear narrative, but maybe that would just confuse a beginning writer like myself? Also I don't have any specific reason for making it nonlinear narrative I just suspect it would work better that way. What sort of questions should I be asking myself on this to make a decision?
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10-06-2009 , 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theBruiser500
Also I don't have any specific reason for making it nonlinear narrative I just suspect it would work better that way.
Seems like a pretty good reason to me to at least give it a shot.

That said, people write non-linear narratives for tons of reasons; to have an unreliable narrator, to cloak some vitally important point from the reader for as long as possible, to mimic the human memory (ie remembering things out of order), to give an impression of something like amnesia, because the book involves time travel, for "artistic effect", to show you things from the perspective of multiple characters... etc etc. I'm sure others can think of more. Does it fit into any of these?
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10-06-2009 , 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theBruiser500
Hey guys I have a question about writing a book. I wrote something in a linear narrative... but it doesn't feel completely right so I am considering making it nonlinear narrative, but maybe that would just confuse a beginning writer like myself? Also I don't have any specific reason for making it nonlinear narrative I just suspect it would work better that way. What sort of questions should I be asking myself on this to make a decision?
Give it a shot and see what happens.

But, I mean, unless you're enthusiastic about and committed to using the non-linear narrative toward some specific end (there are a lot of options here, but most go a bit beyond 'because its cool') it might be easier to stick with a straight-forward approach. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by non-linear here; if it's just opening with a hook and then jumping back and working toward it, I think that's probably pretty easy to pull off and is pretty innocuous/standard. But if you're jumping back and forth a lot and just generally ****ing with the timeline, than you should probably have a reason for doing so. People like linearity most of the time imo.

Also, if you're thinking about episodic non-linearity (separate episodes (short stories almost) that proceed linearly and are linked by an over-arching narrative that skips around), I think that's on par with the "hook and explain" approach; just make sure you situate them (subtly if possible).

(I only sort of know what I'm talking about fwiw. Feel free to disregard.)

Last edited by Zutroy; 10-06-2009 at 09:16 PM.
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