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The name's Bond...James Bond The name's Bond...James Bond

09-27-2013 , 07:42 PM
Agree that Skyfall is great and for me is right up there with my fav Bonds. Goldfinger and Live and Let Die.

Thanks for this Diebitter. Great reference.
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09-27-2013 , 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diebitter
wow, I'm reading On Her Majesty's Secret Service now, and in like the first few chapters, there's a part where there's a guy talking about a woman who has the secret desire to be raped, and how he raped her and she became obsessed with him.

I hadn't noticed it before because I've never read them back-to-back like this, but Fleming was a freak and a very weird dude.
Because he's aware of the clear and far away #1 female fantasy which is to be 'taken' by a powerful man without explicit consent, particularly if he looks and acts like Bond?

Read Secret Garden sometime ffs.
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09-27-2013 , 11:51 PM
Just thinking about it now, something that's occurred to me is that Skyfall is a Bond movie that comes very close to being an M movie. The plot seems to revolve around Judi Dench's M as she rebuilds Bond, confronts a demon from her past, quotes Tennyson at a parliamentary hearing, and even builds IEDs out of shotgun shells and lightbulbs --the M character almost runs away with it, with Bond more or less running interference between her and Javier Bardeem.
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09-27-2013 , 11:53 PM
Also, holy hell Javier Bardeem is scary as **** in that movie. One of my top three favorite Bond villains.
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09-28-2013 , 01:28 AM
not 1/10th as scary as No Country for Old Men though...
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09-28-2013 , 02:50 AM
Can't really get the love for Skyfall.

There's a concept in improv that a character should always be acting at the height of their intelligence. Even if they're an idiot, they should be making decisions to the best of their ability. If they're supposed to be really smart, then they should definitely be making the best decisions they can. The decision may be a mistake, but it should make sense from the character's POV.

Skyfall is full of people making terrible decisions, not because they makes any sense from the POV of the character; but simply because the terrible decision is needed to advance the plot or set up an action sequence.

Hey, let's plug the super hacker's computer directly into our ****ing network for no good reason at all!

Ima get myself caught by MI6 for no other reason than so I can set up a really awesome escape! Sure hope they don't think to chain me to a ****ing post in addition to their electronic locks!

I've got the villain right in my sights while he's climbing a ladder. Why don't I stop to chat long enough to give him time to drop a train on my ****ing head like Wile E Coyote instead of just shooting the ****er!

I've gotten the target to safety, and we're hidden by darkness on the moors that I know like the back of my hand. Better use a goddamn flashlight so anyone within a couple miles can spot us!

The list just goes on and on. Just took me right out of the movie.
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09-28-2013 , 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPoppa
Can't really get the love for Skyfall.

There's a concept in improv that a character should always be acting at the height of their intelligence. Even if they're an idiot, they should be making decisions to the best of their ability. If they're supposed to be really smart, then they should definitely be making the best decisions they can. The decision may be a mistake, but it should make sense from the character's POV.

Skyfall is full of people making terrible decisions, not because they makes any sense from the POV of the character; but simply because the terrible decision is needed to advance the plot or set up an action sequence.

Hey, let's plug the super hacker's computer directly into our ****ing network for no good reason at all!

Ima get myself caught by MI6 for no other reason than so I can set up a really awesome escape! Sure hope they don't think to chain me to a ****ing post in addition to their electronic locks!

I've got the villain right in my sights while he's climbing a ladder. Why don't I stop to chat long enough to give him time to drop a train on my ****ing head like Wile E Coyote instead of just shooting the ****er!

I've gotten the target to safety, and we're hidden by darkness on the moors that I know like the back of my hand. Better use a goddamn flashlight so anyone within a couple miles can spot us!

The list just goes on and on. Just took me right out of the movie.
Isn't that every (Bond) movie?
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09-28-2013 , 04:27 PM
Okay, so here's my list of Bond movies, from worst to best. Having thought about it a bit more, even though Moonraker scored the lowest, I'd still rather watch it again that some of the much more humdrum Bonds that scored a little higher. So it isn't actually the worst, even though it scored that way....

I shocked myself when I found one of the Connery movies was the one I'd least like to watch again given some of the woofers made in the Moore and Brosnan eras, but there it is, my brain doesn't always do what I expect it to.

Worst to best imo.

25. Thunderball
24. Octopussy
23. For Your Eyes Only
22. Die Another Day
21. Tomorrow Never Dies
20. Moonraker
19. Casino Royale (1967)
18. Diamonds Are Forever
17. The Man With the Golden Gun
16. The Living Daylights
15. Never Say Never Again
14. Quantum Of Solace
13. View To A Kill
12. The World Is Not Enough
11. Goldeneye
10. Licence To Kill
9. Doctor No
8. Casino Royale (2006)
7. Goldfinger
6. The Spy Who Loved Me
5. From Russia With Love
4. You Only Live Twice
3. OHMSS
2. Live And Let Die
1. Skyfall
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09-28-2013 , 11:14 PM
Goldfinger not even in the top 5? Man With the Golden Gun not in the top 15?
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09-28-2013 , 11:39 PM
What a horrendous list.

Agree tMwtGG is awful though.
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09-29-2013 , 05:16 AM
db you say Moonraker scored lowest but it's 20th on your list of 25?
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09-29-2013 , 05:27 AM
yeah, I know, I know....

I couldn't put it last in the end, because I honestly would enjoy watching it more than Thunderball, For Your Eyes Only etc...

It annoys me, but it doesn't bore me.

What can I say, my brain sometimes doesn't do what I expect it to. Damn ornery brain.
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09-29-2013 , 06:21 AM
I find Moonraker entertaining as well despite its flaws. Me and some dorm mates went to a showing of Moonraker at university way back when. The next morning at breakfast I called one of my buddies Jaws due to his mouth full of braces at the time. He was a pretty quick witted guy so when he whipped around a little too quickly for my liking I had a feeling I'd missed something. "Well at least I don't have his girlfriend" he quipped. I was dating a 5' tall girl with long blond hair down to her ass at the time. Confirmed burned. lol
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09-29-2013 , 03:08 PM
The 1 & 2 choices are pure trolls.

Well-played sir. Well-played.
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09-29-2013 , 03:44 PM
Heh, I guess my post about Skyfall wasn't entirely convincing then.
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09-30-2013 , 12:30 AM
OHMSS isn't bad at all, but putting it #3 is pure spew.
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09-30-2013 , 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPoppa
OHMSS isn't bad at all, but putting it #3 is pure spew.
Yeah I wouldn't put it that high. Maybe the 7-8 range. Otherwise decent list. Hard for me to argue with Skyfall at number one.
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09-30-2013 , 10:27 PM
Thunderball isn't the best (interestingly it was the most successful of the Connery Bond films) but it certainly isn't the worst - that has to go to either Die Another Day or The Living Daylights.

Thunderball's big issues are:
  • It hasn't aged well due to the heavy featuring of the 60's underwater technology.
  • It was the biggest budget Bond to date (by almost 3x) and it seemed they threw a lot of extraneous stuff and locations in just because they were expensive.
  • The story got bogged down in the last third of the movie (like the book)
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09-30-2013 , 11:28 PM
Is that the one with the extended underwater fight scene? Yeah, that just wasn't a great idea. Dudes punching each other underwater just isn't going to work.
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10-01-2013 , 02:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slamdunkpro
Thunderball isn't the best (interestingly it was the most successful of the Connery Bond films) but it certainly isn't the worst - that has to go to either Die Another Day or The Living Daylights.

Thunderball's big issues are:
  • It hasn't aged well due to the heavy featuring of the 60's underwater technology.
  • It was the biggest budget Bond to date (by almost 3x) and it seemed they threw a lot of extraneous stuff and locations in just because they were expensive.
  • The story got bogged down in the last third of the movie (like the book)
indeed those are the issues. Way too slow moving in the last second and last acts
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10-01-2013 , 03:23 AM
Die....bitter
He's the man, the man who ranked skyfall one
Pretty girl, beware of his terrible list, he must be pissed.
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10-02-2013 , 12:16 AM
I don't really rate Thunderball highly either, but so much better than: Live and Let Die, Moonraker, View to a Kill and TND. And QoS which I'm not even counting.
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10-02-2013 , 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPoppa
OHMSS isn't bad at all, but putting it #3 is pure spew.
3 is a tad high, but not by much:
Great Villain
maybe best Bond Girl ever
great scene with the gypsies
hilariously great open
GOAT finish.

yeah, it woulda been better with Sean. We know.
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10-10-2013 , 04:00 PM
I liked skyfall but I thought the film had way too many false endings. There is this tendency nowadays for films to last way too long and outlast their plot. The last half hour in Skyfall house itself feels absurd, overtly long and lacking the dramatic effect of the scenes in London.
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11-11-2013 , 02:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diebitter
Skyfall

Though much is taken, much abides; and though
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.




Well, having watched all the Bond movies in a long run (and not the first time I've seen them), and expecting mostly that what I thought before would remain true by the end, I was surprised by the end result...Skyfall is now my favourite Bond. None of the others, save perhaps OHMSS and Casino Royale, approach the emotional impact of this, and none of them except maybe From Russia With Love and Goldfinger approach the level of cinematography and imagery of Skyfall.

It is flawed, of course, with logic, plot holes and with character dissonances, but these are minor. It's a grand work, with a great villain, and some great scenes (the fight in silhouette is masterful), and has subtle echoes of other stories and themes (some of Bond's own in fact). The main themes, it seems to me, are death and resurrection, themes of parenthood gone awry but shaping the child into something he would not have been if he'd stayed under a parent's protective wing, of battling against very tough odds to win (and this is the first time I can really recall in a Bond film a clear sense Bond is in survival rather than winning mode), and also light and shadow. There's elements of old British myths here, like Arthurian legend, a touch of St George fighting the Dragon (the villain is a man burned through on the inside), and Jesus. It starts, after a brilliant action sequence in Istanbul, with Bond dead to the world (echoes of the end of the book You Only Live Twice), amplified by a terrific title sequence overlaid by Adele's plaintive song.

But he does come back when he needs to, and we see him trying to get back some of his former skills and fitness. We have new versions of old Bond elements and characters that work well. But mostly there's this theme of resurrection and old sins coming back to haunt you.

Twice we see Bond fall into water and sink, only to emerge somewhere else. We even see him get to walk on water (well, ice...), and face dragons (of the Komodo kind). We see him unshaven and looking tired and raddled, but when he needs to, a shave and a decent tuxedo brings the Bond we know back.

Sam Mendes, the director, is a man versed in classic British literature and stories, and he invokes these subtly throughout. There's a theme here of Britain in decline, paralleled by Bond's decline, and both struggling...it reminds me of the Saxon belief that a king is tied to his land, and a king in decline means the land is in decline, and vice versa. Mendes is perhaps invoking that old idea here. And while we see Bond struggling to get back to his old levels of strength, we also see the chaos and doubters around M, until finally Bond takes M away, so he can try to protect her from the relentless and resourceful villain, even while he's not quite back to strength himself.

But about Bond and maybe about Britain, M says as she quotes Tennyson...'Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.'

The words mirror the end.

And what a great ending. A great middle and start too, with Bardem proving a terrific villain, who is clearly the good guy in his own story, but the bad guy in ours. He's bitter, complex, funny, and haunted by betrayal he cannot forgive. He shows he loves M by the end, but cannot live without finishing her and himself. But that end...The final goodbye to the old M, and Bond back to his former self, going into M's office with that gloriously plush leather-padded door (like the one in the old days), to see the new M, and when asked if he's ready to get back to work...as Bond puts it, "With pleasure, M. With pleasure."

Glorious.

90/100
Bump for Skyfall just landing on Netflix US.

Let the skyfall...
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