online 50 and 100NL

tuq, thanks for the link. Alobar wins at posting quite often. I think I have a couple of his bookmarked or saved in some fashion.

Who the hell folds for a final $7 on a $100+ pot?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($188)
Button ($48.65)
SB ($49.50)
BB ($104.25)
UTG ($66.05)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T, J.
UTG raises to $2, Hero calls $2, 3 folds.

Flop: ($4.75) 9, T, J (2 players)
UTG bets $3, Hero raises to $6, UTG raises to $18, Hero calls $12.

Turn: ($40.75) 3 (2 players)
UTG bets $20, Hero raises to $40, UTG calls $20.

River: ($120.75) 7 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $7, UTG folds.

Final Pot: $120.75

Results in white below:
Hero has Th Jh (two pair, jacks and tens).
Outcome: Hero wins $120.75.

Limit players.

Edit: I didn't even look at your bet sizing the first time. That whole hand is like LOLLHE. WTF w/ all the minraises?

I just played against a dude wearing a FTSOP jersey: not that good, IMO, but has a winning return on investment.

I took him out pretty easy, although the match was long.

Game was a Heads Up Sit and Go.

6-max equiv of poo-flinging obv.

I'd just stacked this guy for a lot just before, btw.


here's how I stacked him, some dumb hand, huh?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($91.95)
BB ($54.90)
UTG ($49.25)
MP ($84.85)
CO ($146.60)
Button ($49.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4, A.
UTG raises to $1.5, 1 fold, CO calls $1.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.25, 1 fold.

Flop: ($5) J, Q, T (3 players)
Hero bets $2.5, UTG raises to $8, CO raises to $145.1, Hero calls $87.95 (All-In), UTG folds.

Turn: ($193.90) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($193.90) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $193.90

Results in white below:
Hero has 4c Ac (flush, ace high).
CO has Td Th (three of a kind, tens).
Outcome: Hero wins $193.90. CO wins $54.65.

OK, I have a poker question.

I am a limit player. Not great but fairly good or at least good enough to be in the winning column most of the time. It is a pretty rare month that I ever end up down. The only No-Limit I have ever played have been a few tournaments. Stuff like play money sit and go's, play money MTT and then one live tourney at Treasure Island which was like a $60 thing with 35 or so people. {Brag}Did OK in the live tourney taking third place. Worst part was my son was one the one to knock me out. He won the thing!

Anyway, My question is How do I go about learning to play No-Limit? I would like to try some no limit (I think) but frankly it scares me. But I keep reading how No-Limit is like an ATM and there are so many games out there it is hard to ignore.

I am hoping someone here can either give me some pointers or direct me to a post that can help. I am hoping there is some way I can use what I know about limit and easily apply that to No-Limit. Maybe there just really isn't an easy way to go from one to the other but that is what I am kind of looking for.

Oh Ya, I am a low limit kind of guy too. I am not doing this for make a pile of money but really more for fun and to win when I play rather then lose. No one likes to lose.

first, decide whether you want to try full ring or 6 max. Full ring is usually easier IMO. I'll give you some preflop hand ranges and pointers then.

Then you gotta decide whether you're playing short or fullstacked (I mean 40BB-60BB rather than 100BB; I don't mean shortstacking, but that is an option for you).

Next pick a level to start at. I'd suggest nl25, as it's the lowest level the game actually is anything like a real poker game. nl10 is just waiting for good hands and killing the tards - it's not very good for learning.

let me know what you want to dip into, and I'll give you some pointers.

I mod the Full Ring NL forum, btw. There's also a Limit>NL forum under the Limit section at the moment.


Also, books worth considering are:

Phil Gordon: Little Green Book (though ignore his starting hand guides, they don't suit online games)
No Limit: Theory and Practice
Professional No Limit Holdem

The last 2 will make your head swim at first reading, but you do need these books.



Last: Limit is about good cards and small edges. No Limit is much, much more about implied odds and waiting for the goodies, and betting to make people get poor odds (and to some degree making decisions as easy as possible for yourself). To illustrate: If as an NL player, you give me the choice of playing AA UTG, or 88 on the button in a full buyin, 9-handed game, I prefer the latter. If I have 60BB, or it's 6-max, I much prefer the former. Why, because people usually have to have a better hand than AA to dump 100BB at FR, but that isn't the case when the stack is 60BB, or when you're playing aggro 6-handed.

Also, Cry Me A River did a huge post detailing all the good threads in 2+2, look for it in the Full Ring Forum.

I am more of a full ring kind of guy.
I guess I am not sure on the stack thing. I guess part of this should be that I do not have a lot of $$'s online right now and I do not see that changing soon with the damn American govt &*&^%&()_%! Anyway, I see me more at really low limits just to get used to it a little, hopefully without blowing my very small online bankroll and maybe trying the no limit live thing when I have a chance.

If you're playing very low, I suggest only play AA-22, AK, AQs, raise from all positions, fold to any 3-bet with AQs,JJ-22 if the bet costs more than 10% of your remaining stack - if it's less you can call. Jam with AA-QQ,AK preflop if you're 3-betted. Always c-bet on the flop if it wasn't 3-bet unless the board is horrendous (if you have 88 and it's AK3, or 3 suited, that's horrendous), but give up after that if the guy ain't giving up and you haven't got at least a decent pair or draw.

That's a robotic way of playing that should be profitable but boring.

Another approach is buying in at 30BB, and pushing all in if you get AA-QQ,AK. I'm not kidding, this works at nl10 and less.

neither will teach you much, but will allow you to get used to the table, and build a roll in a safeish way.

probably more likely a better question for live players:

have you ever folded a winner intentionally? how/why?

Thanks DB, I really appreciate the help. Maybe if I have some time this weekend I'll try some of this!

ps. when you get in preflop with a middle-small pair, you're looking to flop a set. Otherwise, you're looking to flop top pair.

don't go nuts if you don't hit these, but c-betting 2/3 the pot on the flop can be profitable whatever lands if the table isn't tough. It also makes a good smokescreen for when you hit a solid hand. IF you only bet your good ones, it's way less profitable than it could be.


If I'm using any terminology you don't understand, just ask. I forget what's common parlance and what's pokerese.

Fish, I heard there's a website that's mostly about poker strategy. Forget the name, though.

DB's advice is pretty good. Also, Ed Miller's Getting Started book is a great place to, well - get started!

Fish:

It is very intimidating at first. But here is the BIG SECRET:

No Limit is WAY WAY WAY easier to learn than Limit, once you get used the money going all in.

1-- Download Poker Stove. It is incredibly useful.

2-- Think about it. If you are playing 3/6 live, you will on average, for a hand you believe you will win, spend 3+3+3+6+6= 21 dollars. If you are playing live 40 max, you will be putting in half your stack when you have a winner. Once you get the big stack, the game starts becoming super fun.

midstakes PLO is crazy, but here's how to turn $180 into $1900 in less than 20 minutes...

(apologies for no hand conversion, I couldn't get it to work):


PokerStars Game #13408302492: Omaha Pot Limit ($3/$6) - 2007/11/22 - 22:03:21 (ET) Table 'Irus' 9-max Seat #2 is the button Seat 1: **Tycoon** ($531.40 in chips) Seat 2: 1Do2Den007 ($1302.15 in chips) Seat 3: NOXQZEZ ($302.80 in chips) Seat 4: alexia18 ($1453.30 in chips) Seat 5: OO-Nasty ($379 in chips) Seat 6: diebitter ($186.65 in chips) Seat 7: Sodom ($88.80 in chips) Seat 8: mnbvcxy ($738.70 in chips) Seat 9: Stud ($243 in chips)
NOXQZEZ: posts small blind $3
alexia18: posts big blind $6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to diebitter [Jd 5s Qh Ah]
OO-Nasty: calls $6
diebitter: calls $6
Sodom: folds
mnbvcxy: folds
Stud: folds
**Tycoon**: calls $6
1Do2Den007: folds
NOXQZEZ: calls $3
alexia18: checks
*** FLOP *** [5h 2c 9h]
NOXQZEZ: checks
alexia18: checks
OO-Nasty: checks
diebitter: bets $28.50
**Tycoon**: folds
NOXQZEZ: folds
alexia18: calls $28.50
OO-Nasty: folds
*** TURN *** [5h 2c 9h] [Ad]
alexia18: checks
1Do2Den007 is sitting out
diebitter: bets $84
alexia18: calls $84
*** RIVER *** [5h 2c 9h Ad] [6h]
1Do2Den007 leaves the table
alexia18: bets $252
diebitter: calls $68.15 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
alexia18: shows [3h Ac Jh 3c] (a flush, Jack high)
diebitter: shows [Jd 5s Qh Ah] (a flush, Ace high) diebitter collected $388.30 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $391.30 | Rake $3
Board [5h 2c 9h Ad 6h]
Seat 1: **Tycoon** folded on the Flop
Seat 2: 1Do2Den007 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: NOXQZEZ (small blind) folded on the Flop Seat 4: alexia18 (big blind) showed [3h Ac Jh 3c] and lost with a flush, Jack high Seat 5: OO-Nasty folded on the Flop Seat 6: diebitter showed [Jd 5s Qh Ah] and won ($388.30) with a flush, Ace high Seat 7: Sodom folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: mnbvcxy folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: Stud folded before Flop (didn't bet)

========================

PokerStars Game #13408325420: Omaha Pot Limit ($3/$6) - 2007/11/22 - 22:04:45 (ET) Table 'Irus' 9-max Seat #3 is the button Seat 1: **Tycoon** ($525.40 in chips) Seat 3: NOXQZEZ ($296.80 in chips) Seat 4: alexia18 ($1266.65 in chips) Seat 5: OO-Nasty ($373 in chips) Seat 6: diebitter ($388.30 in chips) Seat 7: Sodom ($88.80 in chips) Seat 8: mnbvcxy ($738.70 in chips) Seat 9: Stud ($243 in chips)
alexia18: posts small blind $3
nutsbabys joins the table at seat #2
OO-Nasty: posts big blind $6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to diebitter [5d Qd Ts Jd]
diebitter: calls $6
Sodom: calls $6
mnbvcxy: folds
Stud: calls $6
**Tycoon**: folds
NOXQZEZ: folds
alexia18: calls $3
OO-Nasty: checks
*** FLOP *** [8h Tc 9h]
alexia18: checks
OO-Nasty: checks
diebitter: bets $28.50
Sodom: raises $54.30 to $82.80 and is all-in
Stud: raises $154.20 to $237 and is all-in
alexia18: folds
OO-Nasty: folds
diebitter: calls $208.50
*** TURN *** [8h Tc 9h] [2c]
*** RIVER *** [8h Tc 9h 2c] [8d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
diebitter: shows [5d Qd Ts Jd] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
Stud: shows [Jc Kd Qc Kh] (a straight, Eight to Queen) diebitter collected $154.20 from side pot Stud collected $154.20 from side pot
Sodom: mucks hand
diebitter collected $137.70 from main pot Stud collected $137.70 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $586.80 Main pot $275.40. Side pot $308.40. | Rake $3 Board [8h Tc 9h 2c 8d] Seat 1: **Tycoon** folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: NOXQZEZ (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: alexia18 (small blind) folded on the Flop Seat 5: OO-Nasty (big blind) folded on the Flop Seat 6: diebitter showed [5d Qd Ts Jd] and won ($291.90) with a straight, Eight to Queen Seat 7: Sodom mucked [9c Ac Qh Th] Seat 8: mnbvcxy folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: Stud showed [Jc Kd Qc Kh] and won ($291.90) with a straight, Eight to Queen

------------------------------

PokerStars Game #13408462539: Omaha Pot Limit ($3/$6) - 2007/11/22 - 22:13:02 (ET) Table 'Irus' 9-max Seat #2 is the button Seat 1: **Tycoon** ($552.40 in chips) Seat 2: nutsbabys ($444 in chips) Seat 3: NOXQZEZ ($278.80 in chips) Seat 4: alexia18 ($1139.15 in chips) Seat 5: OO-Nasty ($391.15 in chips) Seat 6: diebitter ($407.20 in chips) Seat 7: AABassMaster ($172.20 in chips) Seat 9: ckl555 ($150 in chips)
NOXQZEZ: posts small blind $3
alexia18: posts big blind $6
ckl555: posts big blind $6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to diebitter [2h 5d 9c 5c]
OO-Nasty: folds
diebitter: calls $6
AABassMaster: folds
ckl555: checks
**Tycoon**: raises $18 to $24
nutsbabys: folds
NOXQZEZ: folds
alexia18: calls $18
diebitter: calls $18
ckl555: folds
*** FLOP *** [8d 5h Th]
alexia18: checks
diebitter: bets $78
**Tycoon**: folds
alexia18: calls $78
*** TURN *** [8d 5h Th] [Kd]
alexia18: checks
diebitter: bets $234
alexia18: calls $234
*** RIVER *** [8d 5h Th Kd] [Jd]
alexia18: bets $702
diebitter: calls $71.20 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
alexia18: shows [3c Jh 2s Kh] (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
diebitter: shows [2h 5d 9c 5c] (three of a kind, Fives) diebitter collected $844.40 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $847.40 | Rake $3
Board [8d 5h Th Kd Jd]
Seat 1: **Tycoon** folded on the Flop
Seat 2: nutsbabys (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: NOXQZEZ (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 4: alexia18 (big blind) showed [3c Jh 2s Kh] and lost with two pair, Kings and Jacks Seat 5: OO-Nasty folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: diebitter showed [2h 5d 9c 5c] and won ($844.40) with three of a kind, Fives Seat 7: AABassMaster folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: ckl555 folded before Flop

-------------------------------

PokerStars Game #13408582922: Omaha Pot Limit ($3/$6) - 2007/11/22 - 22:20:21 (ET) Table 'Irus' 9-max Seat #7 is the button Seat 1: **Tycoon** ($504.45 in chips) Seat 2: nutsbabys ($438 in chips) Seat 3: NOXQZEZ ($269.80 in chips) Seat 4: alexia18 ($874.10 in chips) Seat 5: OO-Nasty ($313.40 in chips) Seat 6: diebitter ($832.40 in chips) Seat 7: AABassMaster ($46.15 in chips) Seat 9: ckl555 ($243.10 in chips)
ckl555: posts small blind $3
**Tycoon**: posts big blind $6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to diebitter [Kd Kh Ah Qd]
nutsbabys: folds
NOXQZEZ: folds
alexia18: calls $6
OO-Nasty: folds
diebitter: raises $21 to $27
AABassMaster: folds
ckl555: raises $66 to $93
**Tycoon**: folds
alexia18: calls $87
diebitter: calls $66
*** FLOP *** [Ks 6d 9s]
ckl555: bets $150.10 and is all-in
alexia18: calls $150.10
diebitter: raises $589.30 to $739.40 and is all-in
alexia18: calls $589.30
*** TURN *** [Ks 6d 9s] [5s]
*** RIVER *** [Ks 6d 9s 5s] [3c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
alexia18: shows [Jc Td 5c Qc] (a pair of Fives)
diebitter: shows [Kd Kh Ah Qd] (three of a kind, Kings) diebitter collected $1178.60 from side pot
ckl555: mucks hand
diebitter collected $732.30 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1913.90 Main pot $732.30. Side pot $1178.60. | Rake $3 Board [Ks 6d 9s 5s 3c] Seat 1: **Tycoon** (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 2: nutsbabys folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: NOXQZEZ folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: alexia18 showed [Jc Td 5c Qc] and lost with a pair of Fives Seat 5: OO-Nasty folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: diebitter showed [Kd Kh Ah Qd] and won ($1910.90) with three of a kind, Kings Seat 7: AABassMaster (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: ckl555 (small blind) mucked [Ac Ad 7h 9h]

What is going on in that last hand? Did alexia like somehow forget that they only get to play two cards from their hand and that they thought they flopped the straight? Otherwise they made no pair, had no flush draw, and only had an inside straight draw. Sheesh, Omaha makes my head hurt.

it's not exactly a straight draw, it's 9 outs to the nut straight. twice. However it was discounted by the two spades, so really it has like 6 clean outs. Not a good bet.

Yeah, being the big stack -- or even the small stack -- bully is very fun in poker, and it can be really profitable.

I think no-limit is a way better game than limit too.

I don't think I've even played anything but the rare tournament in like almost two years. I wish Party would come back for Americans. I still have just a couple bucks left on Pokerstars, and am hesitant to put any more money anywhere with the laws going nutty on us like they have.

db,

Whoops, that's why I suck at and avoid even looking at Omaha, I missed half the outs.

More Omaha-ha-ha

PokerStars Game #13634052857: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2007/12/03 - 20:01:44 (ET)
Table 'Thora' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: ckl555 ($214.80 in chips)
Seat 3: Tschabo4Life ($449.35 in chips)
Seat 4: augie99 ($406 in chips)
Seat 5: konelao ($420.10 in chips)
Seat 8: rllalex ($323.65 in chips)
Seat 9: diebitter ($222.20 in chips)
ckl555: posts small blind $2
Tschabo4Life: posts big blind $4
niclas237: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to diebitter [Ts Th Qd 9h]
niclas237 leaves the table
augie99: folds
konelao: raises $10 to $14
rllalex: calls $14
diebitter: calls $14
ckl555: calls $12
Tschabo4Life: calls $10
*** FLOP *** [8c Kh Jh]
ckl555: checks
Tschabo4Life: checks
konelao: bets $67
rllalex: folds
diebitter: raises $141.20 to $208.20 and is all-in
ckl555: folds
Tschabo4Life: folds
konelao: calls $141.20
*** TURN *** [8c Kh Jh] [4s]
*** RIVER *** [8c Kh Jh 4s] [Qh]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
konelao: shows [6c 5h 7s Ah] (a flush, Ace high)
diebitter: shows [Ts Th Qd 9h] (a straight flush, Nine to King)
diebitter collected $483.40 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $486.40 | Rake $3
Board [8c Kh Jh 4s Qh]
Seat 1: ckl555 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: Tschabo4Life (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: augie99 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: konelao showed [6c 5h 7s Ah] and lost with a flush, Ace high
Seat 8: rllalex folded on the Flop
Seat 9: diebitter (button) showed [Ts Th Qd 9h] and won ($483.40) with a straight flush, Nine to King

I am huge fish at Omahahahahahahaha!

But wtf? I know Omaha is a great gambling game to just gamble for kicks, but I don't play this bad. OR, I don't understand why you played good and that is why I am a huge fish at this game.

Blarg: For the most part, you can use your VISA or MasterCard debit cards to deposit on Stars and Tilt. The laws are blasse. They will figure out the war, immigration, health care, the new president, and many other issues long before they care about poker again.

Do you mean this specific hand?

Well, count all my outs. If we forget about the flushing, I have any Ace, Queen, Ten or Nine as an out.

It's a mad flip though...often in this situation, the other guy is either drawing to the nut flush or already has a set, so there's plenty of bullets to dodge.


The thing with Omaha is, this pot is unusual in being heads up. Often it's a 3 or 4 way, and you're like 40% to win, which means it's profitable but high variance...

I got a Royal Flush this morning!

Funny thing was I didn't really make any money. I flopped a straight and had a draw to the RF and didn't want to chase anyone out to see if it would come. Filled out the RF on the turn and still just checked not wanting to chase anyone out. Finally bet the river and actually got one caller.

Third time in a bunch of years I have hit that.

I thought that hands like 55xx are NOT playable, because middle sets and small full houses are huge money losers. As I said, I AM A WHALE at Omaha.