For cliffs, just read the last two paragraphs.

So, K and I are progressing towards being married, and naturally, as two people go down this path, they're going to have to work out a ton of **** between them: division of labor sorts of things, numbers of kids desired eventually, accommodating each other's crap in your new mutual residence, working with each others bad habits, etc. For a surprising number of things, we see eye to eye and don't even need to compromise. For others, we have discussed them like mature adults and come to some sort of compromise or even have been completely swayed to one side or the other. One issue, however, lingers, and despite a few discussions, we haven't come to a mutually satisfactory consensus.

K is a shockingly traditional woman compared to the standards of today in many ways when it comes to relationships, sex, love, and marriage, but in others, she's extremely progressive. It's not all upbringing, as her sister is quite different. I think some of it is reactionary. Her sister started out as a career woman, but she's now a stay-at-home mother of four after 6 years of marriage (yeah, not wasting any time) to a guy who can definitely be at times overbearingly patriarchal. K loves the kids, but I think she fears losing her independence like she perceives her sister did.

K is somewhat resentful of having lost much of the contact she had with her sister after her sister got married, like she thinks her sister was no longer part of her family. She's had much more contact since the immediate aftermath of her sister's marriage, but that attitude persists. As a consequence I think that K thinks that a rose by any other name might smell as sweet, but it would be less of a rose. K bristles at any the thought of anything that could be considered as making her less a part of her current family, and she bristles at the thought of having social status the least bit below her husband.

In general, I'm down with both those things. On the first, I believe in equal time spent between our respective families for things like holidays and such, and her family and I get along quite well. On the second, well, if she makes more money than I do, hey, more money, amirite? But societal conventions run afoul of these things, specifically regarding last names.

K absotively, posilutely will not take my last name. If it were just going to be the two of us, I wouldn't give a **** about that. But kids makes it harder. If I'm going to go through the rest of my life as MrWookie, and she as K Doe, what do we call our kids? Johnny and Suzy Wookie-Doe? So then both of us and our kids all have three different "family" names? I'm not particularly satisfied with that on a purely emotional level. But K isn't down with having our kids just be Wookies, because then she feels like society won't recognize them as being hers, too. Them being all Does doesn't really solve the problem either. So then what? Me becoming MrDoe is setting myself up for all kinds of societal emasculation, saying that the sons are Wookies and the daughters are Does is not only stupid but also potentially setting up some pretty severe disappointment for one party if the genders of the kids are skewed, and adopting some sort of novel family name is pretty far out there and perhaps also unsatisfactory to K.

Has anyone here dealt with these sorts of negotiations before? Since it seems like such an emotional, ingrained issue without much natural middle ground, I'm curious how you came to a consensus. Did one of you perhaps capitulate on the name issue in exchange for a concession on a peripheral issue? Am I a relic who should instead just be saying "yes dear?" How do you/did you/should you approach this issue in general? Thoughts on my specific case?

Thanks

I know it sounds important now, but take a step back and really think about - what does it matter?

Embrace her individuality in not taking your name. I know I sure as hell wouldn't want to change my last name. Why do we assume women do? Or should?

As for children...you both have plenty of time to come up with a mutually acceptable solution.

But now? You have the love of your life wanting to marry you. Let this small, immaterial thing go. You're going to have to do a lot of this in the future. Fight for the important things that matter...not this.

My parents have 3 daughters so no-one will continue the family name (at least from this side of a family). So when my sister got pregnant and discovered she is going to have a boy, she decided to give the boy her last name (so our family name would continue). I had a talk with her about the last name (how its pretty popular last name in Estonia and last name is not that important and that when she will get married her son will be the only on with that name etc, etc) anyway when it came time to name the kid, he got his dad last name.
I think your fiancee needs to talk to her family (especially her sister) about what make family strong(and it aint last name or even sharing blood lines) and why her sister choose to stay home and I think her sister is happy with her life (she just never saw the effect she left on your fiancee).
About the independence -I think its great that she is independent, but marriage aint always walk in the park and she should know that she can (and sometimes should) rely on you when things get tough, without thinking any less of herself (and vica versa).
I wish you two many great years to share.

WooDoe?

I got nothing.

My wife kept her maiden name because she had a design business and has a cool Italian last name instead of a clunky Irish one.

We've been married for 23 years, so I guess it didn't make much difference.

It was a pain in the ass a couple of times early on in terms of getting a mortgage/car loan, but the banks seem to have figured this stuff out over the last decade or so.

MM MD

So, you say that having all the kids being named Doe doesn't solve the problem. This must mean you have a problem with that. Why? Does passing down your family name mean that much to you? I think if I was in your shoes I'd agree to have all the kids named Doe and then just ask for all the other unresolved issues to come down on my side.

As others have said though, you really don't have to worry about it until she is popping out kids.

These days last names don't matter much. Divorice, hyphens, 4th marriages, common law, etc.

Doe-Wookie or Wookie-Doe for the kids last name will be understood by everyone, not create problems crossing borders, at school, later in life, etc. It is a logical solution, but is logic the issue or emotion?

As to your issues with changing your name. Understood, but she has the same issues. You have to decide is the convinence of you, your wife and the kids having exactly the same last name a big issue? Worth going to war over? Does it cause you personal issues with changing? Why not hyphenate the kids and you both keep yours?

Good Luck

and K sounds like a keeper. If you want to live with sheep, move to New Zealand.

Just portmanteau the names.....Dookie!

If she, like you, is in academia I would think it's very standard for her to keep her last name since she would have already published/built a rep under it. Or even if she's not, I believe in a woman's right to choose, yo.

As for your kids, that's a tough spot. Do you have any brothers or male cousins that share your last name? I'm the last of my line, and if I die without children my surname will go with me. It's not that great a name, but still it kind of bothers me. For this reason I have always been up front with future spousal candidates that they understand they could take my name or not, but our first born male son will have my last name and my last name alone.

You could both hyphenate, Mr. and Mrs. Wookie-Doe, and then it would be natural for your kids to have that name. It would kind of emasculate you, though. I know a couple that did it, and I always assumed the guy must be a hell of a pushover to be the only married man to ever change his name. Or you could alternate last names for kids, but I think that would probably cause problems for them in the long run.

Hyphenated names are not great unless you're landed gentry. However, If your names work as hyphenated (anything over 4 syllables in all is too long imo) and it doesn't sound dopey with either of your first names on the front, go with that.

Also 'yes dear' is fine, you might as well get used to it.

I am very openminded in almost anything regarding independence of women etc. There is one point that is absolutely non-negotiable with me; my kids will bear my name only. The only thing up for debate would be whether the wife-to-be changes her name to mine or merely adds it.

Will probably just change her name since my surname is Dutch and hers is Chinese, which would mean that noone in the entire world could properly pronounce her surname.

Pretty sure there's less people in the world that are able to properly pronounce a Dutch last name, but what do I know. In fact, most Americans with Dutch last names don't know how to pronounce them correctly.

I have a student that goes by a hyphenated name, but in the system he just has one of the last names. I have no idea if his parents are divorced or married or what. My first assumption was that the 2nd name was a stepfather's.

Not sure what this adds, but it made me think of my student.