Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

The Lounge: Discussion+Review For discussion and debate about arts, movies+TV, music, reading+literature, style, fashion, history, culture and many more subjects

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-08-2014, 04:20 PM   #176
vhawk01
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
vhawk01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: GHoFFANMWYD
Posts: 31,866
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Obesity doesnt bother me at all. I dont particularly enjoy looking at extremely obese people, but I dont particularly enjoy looking at ugly people, or penises, either. Its not offensive, I dont find it disgusting, or worthy of hate or scorn. I feel bad for them to some degree because their lives are limited.

What DOES offend me is the entitled, external-locus-of-control attitude that is STRONGLY correlated with obesity, and the correlation goes up with the BMI. My attitude towards obese people has changed dramatically since I've worked in healthcare. We see a disproportionate number of very obese patients, and they have a whole litany of medical problems that non-obese patients dont suffer from. With few exceptions, these patients tend to be the most impatient, the least compliant, the most litiginous and frankly just the meanest and nastiest patients. They tend to take zero responsibility for themselves, whether that is whatever choices led them to this spot in the first place or whether its simple post-operative care and instructions. We have 500 lb patients on their 6th hernia repair who are incredibly demanding and outright rude when their repair fails, which is inevitably does.

None of this makes me hate them. It just makes it incredibly frustrating and difficult to care for them. For many of my colleagues this frustration turns into disgust or anger.
vhawk01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 04:32 PM   #177
Poker Reference
Pooh-Bah
 
Poker Reference's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Issuing weather statements
Posts: 4,886
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

They say that 25% of the excess calories in the food supply are drinkable, not edible; the obesity problem seems like it might correspond with the expansion of beverage options, Benioff Children's Hospital seems to suspect as much. A double-double coffee is around 200 cals, 340 with cream. OJ and Gatorade are in the 110 to 150 rage. Coke is around 250, I think. People have at least one of these per day although I've heard some get up to six.

Fiddling around with solid food or trying to get people to eat offal wouldn't realize the same gains (...) as reducing/eliminating liquid calories. Plus Revots would be happy!
Poker Reference is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 04:38 PM   #178
donjonnie
McSeafield Survivor
 
donjonnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: the dark side of the spoon
Posts: 3,810
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by Didace View Post
If I'm understanding you right, you're weak willed and lack self-control.
well yes regarding a certain subject.
i am very strong willed and able to controll myself in other regards but i really like good food.
if you research the subject of addiction you will find out that and its not fully established yet why thats the case, that not every human reacts the same to a stimulus.

anyway the reason for the hate in here is of course that you have been told that nonconformity is bad.
the whole argument is basicly redundant.
i realize society expects people to behave and look a certain way, i also realize any kind of nonconformtiy to that makes a lot of people feel uneasy.
but i believe thats societies problem and i am damn well going to do what ever the **** i please.
donjonnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 04:41 PM   #179
vhawk01
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
vhawk01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: GHoFFANMWYD
Posts: 31,866
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleSam View Post
If you're so disgusted, why do you keep looking at them? Look away if it causes you such distress. No one is forcing YOU to look. I know you're getting your jollies off of feeling superior to them, but get a new hobby.

Interesting that no one has brought up the strong correlation between obesity and economic class. People who are poorer tend to be more overweight which is highly related to the fact that the foods that are cheaper are more caloric (especially in empty calories), high in preservatives, sugars, etc. And before you start throwing down 'the fact' that carrots cost the same as McDonalds, no, no they don't. They don't cost the same in terms of caloric payout as more empty calories (aka McDonalds) will make you feel fuller than a lesser number of calories from a better source (ie carrots). Also, there is a time cost that also needs to be figured in as all of the healthier foods (ie fresh fruits, vegetables, etc) require preparation to actually make a meal whereas McDonalds obviously does not. If you're a minimum wage earner and probably working a couple of jobs to make ends meet, you rarely have the money, time nor energy to eat as healthy as you know you should, especially if you have a family to support and feed.
You are making a very lazy correlation/causation error here. Fat people tend to be poor, and poor people tend to be fat, but its not necessarily for the reasons you describe, nor is it at all obvious that one causes the other.

Both obesity and lack of professional success are strongly (inversely) correlated with impulse control and ability to delay gratification.
vhawk01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 05:11 PM   #180
revots33
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
revots33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 8,623
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poker Reference View Post
Fiddling around with solid food or trying to get people to eat offal wouldn't realize the same gains (...) as reducing/eliminating liquid calories. Plus Revots would be happy!
Haha well seeing unhealthy people get healthier and be less likely to die would make me happy, yes!

Carbonated sugar-water is the emptiest of empty calories, probably one of the worst things on the planet to put into your body.

Drink more water, drink less soda, consume less calories, get off the couch occasionally... rich or poor, it's not rocket science.
revots33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 05:18 PM   #181
SimpleSam
grinder
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 445
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by vhawk01 View Post
You are making a very lazy correlation/causation error here. Fat people tend to be poor, and poor people tend to be fat, but its not necessarily for the reasons you describe, nor is it at all obvious that one causes the other.
I said 'strong correlation' in the very beginning of my post. I didn't say anything about causation. Can you cite me something/refer me to an article that disputes the correlation argument because I would like to read it (seriously, not being sarcastic at all)? What are the other reasons then?

Quote:
Both obesity and lack of professional success are strongly (inversely) correlated with impulse control and ability to delay gratification.
Are these really your other reasons? Link to study proving this? Because your statement [backed up by nothing other than your own lazy proclamation] is not at all obvious to me.

Last edited by SimpleSam; 04-08-2014 at 05:25 PM.
SimpleSam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 05:25 PM   #182
kioshk
Nixonian
 
kioshk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: now Watergate does not bother me
Posts: 89,719
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Sometimes things are true without having several double blind peer-reviewed studies attached.
kioshk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 05:28 PM   #183
SimpleSam
grinder
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 445
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by kioshk View Post
Sometimes things are true without having several double blind peer-reviewed studies attached.
Are they? Provide a study proving this, please.

But seriously, I ask for studies/cites because I really, really hate anecdotal evidence as support for a position. It just never works for me. You're one person - you can't generalize your own experience as 'proof' of anything other than your own beliefs.
SimpleSam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 05:32 PM   #184
Poker Reference
Pooh-Bah
 
Poker Reference's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Issuing weather statements
Posts: 4,886
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

He might be thinking of the marshmallow experiment.

The conclusion is that the marshmallow eaters' weak self-control carried on through life and resulted in lower incomes, but then you have to wonder if a lifelong trait observable in pre-school is really a choice, or whether it's easier to bag on it when your own vices aren't the kind of thing that becomes visible to outsiders by impairing your health or financial attainment. Lots of CEOs get whipped in dungeons, you know?
Poker Reference is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 05:36 PM   #185
lastcardcharlie
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
lastcardcharlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: QED, I think
Posts: 7,328
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveT View Post
Reading non-poor people talking about what it's like to be on a poor person budget is part funny and part sad.

You realize food banks are only opened during working hours, right?
Who me? I was merely talking about how people are advised, e.g. here:

CAB advice on food banks

I can't help if you think I was saying something else, or the unfounded and irrelevant assumptions you are making about me. (If your post was addressed to me.)
lastcardcharlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 06:07 PM   #186
wiper
still catching up
 
wiper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: USA#1
Posts: 41,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwnsall View Post
according to BMI I am only barely overweight

Score!
I just got curious, so I did mine...

I'm 6'1", 215, which puts me at 28.4, or the upper range of overweight and a night of beer and chicken wings away from obese.

for the past 16 months or so, I've worked out basically every day (I was 278 on jan 1, 2013). I lift, I jog, I bike, I swim, I box/spar.

I've been "stuck" at 215ish for 3 or 4 months now, but that's bc all the weight in my stomach is tightening up on it's way to my shoulders/chest.

I'm 35 and in the best shape probably in my life. 17-19 I may have been just a little faster, but I jogged 6 miles last weekend which is the furthest I've run in my life by a mile or two at least. the 35 year old me would win 8/10 fights against the 17-19 year old me.

but yet, according to a BMI calculator, I'm a percentage point away from being "obese".

gtfo

I still have probably 10lbs I could lose from the remnants of my beer belly, but if I'm obese, then **** that measurement scale.

mostly wanted to subscribe to this hilarious/awesome thread. carry on
wiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 06:17 PM   #187
wiper
still catching up
 
wiper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: USA#1
Posts: 41,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 View Post
Haha well seeing unhealthy people get healthier and be less likely to die would make me happy, yes!

Carbonated sugar-water is the emptiest of empty calories, probably one of the worst things on the planet to put into your body.

Drink more water, drink less soda, consume less calories, get off the couch occasionally... rich or poor, it's not rocket science.
this is it, definitely.

my empty calories are in beer.

when I decided 278 was too fat, I started drinking 100oz water every day and only drank beer on fri/sat.

I would lose 4lbs during the week and gain 2.5 back on the weekends, but **** it that's what I did.

water really is the key IMO. I have 4 or 5 33oz water bottles both at work and home and have a bunch of different flavors of Mio and still drink 3 or 4 every day.

no calories, and while I used to roll my eyes at the whole, "drink water you won't feel as hungry" thing, once you get into that habit of doing it, it really does. drink 30 or 40 ounces of (flavored) water and eat a granola bar and even me at 250lbs+ was fine until lunch...

I dunno. I don't "hate" fat people, but like some have expressed, the feeling of entitlement that goes along with it is stupid and mock-worthy.

you wanna be fat, be fat. **** do I care? being obese is the same as if you were gay to me, there isn't one reason in the world that I would care. don't tread on me and all that.

but thinking you should be a protected class or something, **** off.
wiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 07:41 PM   #188
Didace
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Didace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 10,849
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by donjonnie View Post
i am damn well going to do what ever the **** i please.
This reminds me of something I read somewhere.

Now I remember, this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vhawk01 View Post
What DOES offend me is the entitled, external-locus-of-control attitude that is STRONGLY correlated with obesity, and the correlation goes up with the BMI. My attitude towards obese people has changed dramatically since I've worked in healthcare. We see a disproportionate number of very obese patients, and they have a whole litany of medical problems that non-obese patients dont suffer from. With few exceptions, these patients tend to be the most impatient, the least compliant, the most litiginous and frankly just the meanest and nastiest patients. They tend to take zero responsibility for themselves, whether that is whatever choices led them to this spot in the first place or whether its simple post-operative care and instructions. We have 500 lb patients on their 6th hernia repair who are incredibly demanding and outright rude when their repair fails, which is inevitably does.
Didace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 07:53 PM   #189
kioshk
Nixonian
 
kioshk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: now Watergate does not bother me
Posts: 89,719
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

That's a good point vhawk makes there, I agree.
kioshk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 09:04 PM   #190
A-Rod's Cousin
banned
 
A-Rod's Cousin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Michelle Wie=the next Michelle Wie.
Posts: 37,168
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

I'm very "small government" but I don't see why a fat tax wouldn't be a good thing in the long run.
A-Rod's Cousin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 11:42 PM   #191
kioshk
Nixonian
 
kioshk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: now Watergate does not bother me
Posts: 89,719
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Interesting New Yorker piece on Chris Christie, it's pretty hard on him. http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...ors_picks=true
kioshk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2014, 01:06 AM   #192
daveT
S.A.G.E. Master
 
daveT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Why didn't I use Clojure instead?
Posts: 21,204
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by lastcardcharlie View Post
Who me? I was merely talking about how people are advised, e.g. here:

CAB advice on food banks

I can't help if you think I was saying something else, or the unfounded and irrelevant assumptions you are making about me. (If your post was addressed to me.)
Not making assumptions about you, I just think its funny, that is all.

True anecdote: I've worked on construction sites with a bunch of underpaid, yet overweight Mexicans, living 5 to a room that has undrinkable water and no usable kitchen. I know that is talking extremes, but it is silly to think that people believe everyone in America has unending options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Rod's Cousin View Post
I'm very "small government" but I don't see why a fat tax wouldn't be a good thing in the long run.
Isn't that called "Obamacare"?
daveT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2014, 01:10 AM   #193
kioshk
Nixonian
 
kioshk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: now Watergate does not bother me
Posts: 89,719
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

wiper's 2 posts made a lot of good sense to me, solid stuff.
kioshk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2014, 01:24 AM   #194
katyseagull
mortified by a dream
 
katyseagull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 18,317
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by vhawk01 View Post
My attitude towards obese people has changed dramatically since I've worked in healthcare.
I'm right there with you.
katyseagull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2014, 01:33 AM   #195
kioshk
Nixonian
 
kioshk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: now Watergate does not bother me
Posts: 89,719
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Katy, I still laugh when I think of that funny story you told about chasing that crazy naked lady around.
kioshk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2014, 06:40 AM   #196
lastcardcharlie
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
lastcardcharlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: QED, I think
Posts: 7,328
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveT View Post
True anecdote: I've worked on construction sites with a bunch of underpaid, yet overweight Mexicans, living 5 to a room that has undrinkable water and no usable kitchen. I know that is talking extremes, but it is silly to think that people believe everyone in America has unending options.
Nor is your personal experience of poverty universal.

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/pri...office20130819
lastcardcharlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2014, 01:13 PM   #197
katyseagull
mortified by a dream
 
katyseagull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 18,317
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by kioshk View Post
Katy, I still laugh when I think of that funny story you told about chasing that crazy naked lady around.
haha we were actually talking about that incident last night because we found ourselves, once again, in a similar predicament sliding around a floor trying to subdue a wet naked guy while he kept yelling out "I love you, Katy!" What is it with psychotic people needing to tear their clothes off and run down the halls wet? Someone explain it to me. If I weren't getting paid for this stuff I would be really irritated. But to get back to the topic at hand, at least this patient wasn't fat because wrestling a fat naked guy would have been tricky.

Last edited by katyseagull; 04-09-2014 at 01:18 PM.
katyseagull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2014, 04:26 PM   #198
diebitter
Grotesquely Handsome
 
diebitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 61,772
I love you, katy!
diebitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2014, 08:23 PM   #199
BustoRhymes
Grand Elf
 
BustoRhymes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Once more into the fray
Posts: 24,924
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

When I was in the hospital for less than stable people, there was this one employee named Byron who must have been 500lbs. If you started to act up violently while he was on shift, you were ****ed. I once saw some dude start making a racket, hitting the walls, threatening any of the employees that came close to him. Then we didn't so much hear as feel something heavy coming our way. It was Byron. The patient knew what was coming and froze, like that would help him, but it was too late. Byron slammed into him and took him to the ground.
BustoRhymes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2014, 09:04 PM   #200
vixticator
clutch
 
vixticator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Watch the throne
Posts: 116,904
Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Rod's Cousin View Post
Take this test . It's a safe link to harvard.edu. It's a 10 minute quiz to see if you are biased toward fat people or thin people. They have a lot of quizzes - look at the very bottom for the Fat box. See if you are being truthful with yourself or not.

I took it like 5 years ago and got "strong preference toward thin people" and just re-took it and got the same thing.
Your data suggest a moderate automatic preference for Thin People compared to Fat People.
vixticator is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online