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Old 04-06-2014, 05:28 PM   #101
SimpleSam
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

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Originally Posted by microbet View Post
Fruits and vegetables are generally cheap.
Cheap...by whose budgetary standards? Yours? You feel safe in making this unsupported generalization for everyone?

Case in point:

"But it is also true that The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition recently published a study that found $1 could buy 1,200 calories of potato chips but just 250 calories of vegetables and 170 calories of fresh fruit."

From Poor and Fat: The Real Class War

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I'm generally pretty much a bleeding heart, but that cheap cost of fast food making people fat argument is grating. It is wrong and condescending.
No, it's not. It's the reality. I've heard university professors who specialize in obesity stating the exact same thing (in fact, it's where I got it from).

Last edited by SimpleSam; 04-06-2014 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:37 PM   #102
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

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No, it's not. It's the reality. I've heard university professors who specialize in obesity stating the exact same thing (in fact, it's where I got it from).
You don't need a degree to figure this one out. If poor people are feeding themselves on $3/day and getting fatter than a rich person feeding themselves on $20/day, then it is obvious that that the low quantity food is much higher in calories and low nutrition than the expensive food.

Plus, you live in CA now, where all the foods at your favorite fast food restaurant explicitly state the calories on the menu billboards.
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:45 PM   #103
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

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*I don't mean lol poors have no willpower, I mean that willpower is a limited resource. If you have to spend time and mental energy just surviving, there's not much willpower left to transform your eating habits, or the time to do so even if there were.
I think on the one hand a lot of poor people feel their other problems are worse and they are a bit hopeless, so they are quick to say **** it and not worry as much about being thin.

It's pretty obvious that rich people care more about being thin/not being fat - at least here in SoCal.

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Cheap...by whose budgetary standards? Yours? You feel safe in making this unsupported generalization for everyone?
Here are some produce prices. You can eat there cheaper than McD. Get some Organic Chard.

http://www.foodcoop.com/go.php?id=90

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No, it's not. It's the reality. I've heard university professors who specialize in obesity stating the exact same thing (in fact, it's where I got it from).
I've heard it probably a dozen times on NPR. Doesn't make it true. You can eat healthy food bought at the store for less than eating out at fast food.

Just because that's possible, I understand there are legitimate reasons - even if some of them are psychological or lack of education - that some groups of people eat less healthy than others.

Not all poor groups in the US are fat.
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:49 PM   #104
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

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You don't need a degree to figure this one out. If poor people are feeding themselves on $3/day and getting fatter than a rich person feeding themselves on $20/day, then it is obvious that that the low quantity food is much higher in calories and low nutrition than the expensive food.

Plus, you live in CA now, where all the foods at your favorite fast food restaurant explicitly state the calories on the menu billboards.
What do you think the calories on the menu billboards change?
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:56 PM   #105
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Busto

I just ordered The Diet Fix. Changing your eating habits based on scientific evidence sounds so up my street. Thank you so much for that link.

I need to drop about 25% of my bodyweight, I feel, and I know, for me, it's about getting enough sleep, and developing sustainable, new habits of eating, preferably with suitable habits of exercise (I'm not bad on the exercise part already, so that's relatively painless). I need to keep healthy, because I don't feel the modern world is a good place for kids to start out in, and I want to be around to help them for as long as possible.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:02 PM   #106
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

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I've heard it probably a dozen times on NPR. Doesn't make it true. You can eat healthy food bought at the store for less than eating out at fast food.
Have you seen those stories that have become a 'fad' where lawmakers take the "Minimum Wage Challenge" for a week and see if they can survive on a minimum wage for a week? Here's the link to one. Have you seen what they actually end up buying when they go to the grocery store and try to shop healthy? The lawmaker from the article I linked had budgeted $35 for 5 days. He spent $7 on a turkey sandwich the first day (genius). When he actually did go to the store with his remaining $28, this is what he bought:

Produce: One head of iceberg lettuce ($1.48), five bananas ($1.04) and three pounds of russet potatoes ($1.05).
• Meat and Dairy: One pack of salami ($1.99), one gallon of milk ($2.99), a dozen large eggs ($1.98) and a wedge of cheese ($2.99).
• Dry, Canned and Frozen Goods: One loaf of bread ($1.19), one jar of peanut butter ($4.35), one frozen container of juice ($1.59), one package of spaghetti (88 cents), one can of spaghetti sauce (88 cents), a case of instant-noodle cups ($2.49) and coffee ($3.74).

Looks like he's basically going to be eating sandwiches, pasta and potatoes for a week...hardly like the "fruit and vegetables are cheaper" claim you keep making. And this is just for one person, not a family.

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Not all poor groups in the US are fat.
Who said this?
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:06 PM   #107
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

The Golden Loco just spoke the truth.

Great post
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:12 PM   #108
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

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What do you think the calories on the menu billboards change?
Were they supposed to change anything?
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:15 PM   #109
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

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The Golden Loco just spoke the truth.

Great post
SimpleSam is actually quite intelligent and rumor has it she is very normal irl. The Lounge persona is just that: a persona.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:22 PM   #110
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Blueberries cost like twice what they used to in the old days. I hear they're a superfood now!

Bananas are still a good value, but apples have also gotten crazy expensive.

I don't really look on cheap fast food as preying on poor poor people.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:41 PM   #111
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

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Busto

I just ordered The Diet Fix. Changing your eating habits based on scientific evidence sounds so up my street. Thank you so much for that link.

I need to drop about 25% of my bodyweight, I feel, and I know, for me, it's about getting enough sleep, and developing sustainable, new habits of eating, preferably with suitable habits of exercise (I'm not bad on the exercise part already, so that's relatively painless). I need to keep healthy, because I don't feel the modern world is a good place for kids to start out in, and I want to be around to help them for as long as possible.
My friend, you know I am always happy to help you in any way I can. Dropping 25% bodyweight is no small task, but you have one of the greatest motivations possible. Please feel free to reach out to me. There are also very helpful people who are far more knowledgeable than I in the Health & Fitness subforum. They have helped quite a few people dramatically transform themselves, including myself (and the legendary YTF).

I hope you'll write a review of the book.

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The Golden Loco just spoke the truth.

Great post
Spoiler:
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:45 PM   #112
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

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SimpleSam is actually quite intelligent and rumor has it she is very normal irl. The Lounge persona is just that: a persona.
Dave, you're too smart for this place.

But I don't think that his post was addressed to me/about me.

Last edited by SimpleSam; 04-06-2014 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:46 PM   #113
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

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Were they supposed to change anything?
I suppose in theory they were.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:50 PM   #114
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

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I don't really look on cheap fast food as preying on poor poor people.
What do you mean by 'preying' exactly? There's a reason that there's almost as many fast food places as there are liquor stores in poorer urban neighborhoods.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:55 PM   #115
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

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Dave, you're too smart for this place.

But I don't think that his post was addressed to me/about me.
I forgot that Busto Rhymes has a ton of nicknames. Cheers.
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:12 PM   #116
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There is always the argument that unhealthy food is cheaper... yet poor, obese people buy and drink a ton of sugary soda, even though water is free.

A box of whole grain pasta is a lot cheaper than a bunch of value meals. Canned vegetables and fruit are very cheap also.

I think it is really fooling yourself if you imagine poorer people eat lots of fast food and drink lots of soda because they can't afford to eat anything else. More likely it's the same reason the rest of us eat fast food, it's convenient and tastes good.
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:20 PM   #117
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

It could be that they live in a food desert.

It's not cool to work a 10 hour day then ride a bus for two hours just to pick up a few items from the grocery store and care for 50lbs of groceries while riding a bus. How much determination do you want from people?

Also, food in these poor areas are much more expensive than the rich areas. Why? For one, most food sources is a local liquor store with jacked up prices. There is no competition to tamp down the prices and the suppliers up the cost to the grocer to go out of their way, so even if a grocer is nearby, it is very expensive. I can eat much better for less in downtown LA, with all of the rich people wandering around than I can in near where I work where there is exactly one no-name grocer.
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:23 PM   #118
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

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What do you mean by 'preying' exactly? There's a reason that there's almost as many fast food places as there are liquor stores in poorer urban neighborhoods.
I guess I mean I just don't view them as helpless victims.
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:24 PM   #119
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

those harvard tests made my head hurt
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:30 PM   #120
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Harvard is so overrated, overpriced too.
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:46 PM   #121
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It could be that they live in a food desert.

It's not cool to work a 10 hour day then ride a bus for two hours just to pick up a few items from the grocery store and care for 50lbs of groceries while riding a bus. How much determination do you want from people?

Also, food in these poor areas are much more expensive than the rich areas. Why? For one, most food sources is a local liquor store with jacked up prices. There is no competition to tamp down the prices and the suppliers up the cost to the grocer to go out of their way, so even if a grocer is nearby, it is very expensive. I can eat much better for less in downtown LA, with all of the rich people wandering around than I can in near where I work where there is exactly one no-name grocer.
This all sounds like excuse-making. No doubt life is tougher for poor people, no argument there.

But like I said if you are buying 2-liter bottles of no-name cola instead of drinking free tap water, that is simply a choice based on what tastes better.

Even McDonald's offers water and side salads/apple slices in lieu of soda and fries with their combo meals. For the same price. McDonald's fries taste really good though.

Last edited by revots33; 04-06-2014 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:54 PM   #122
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

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There is always the argument that unhealthy food is cheaper... yet poor, obese people buy and drink a ton of sugary soda, even though water is free.
You're ignoring something though...all of that sugar IS bad for you, but it, combined with the caffeine, does give you a temporary energy boost that you don't get from water (largely due to water having 0 calories). Even though I know how utterly crap it is, I'll drink a Coke at work around 2:00-3:00 pm when I start lagging because it definitely perks me up.

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A box of whole grain pasta is a lot cheaper than a bunch of value meals. Canned vegetables and fruit are very cheap also.
You're drastically over-simplying here. Who eats pasta by itself? There's also cheese and/or sauce that needs to be figured into the cost. And canned vegetables and fruit by themselves are not a meal. And you're completely ignoring the 'time cost' required to prepare these foods.

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I think it is really fooling yourself if you imagine poorer people eat lots of fast food and drink lots of soda because they can't afford to eat anything else. More likely it's the same reason the rest of us eat fast food, it's convenient and tastes good.
Yes, what you say is true, I'm sure. Like any other group of Americans, poorer people also eat fast food because it's convenient (as in close to their houses/apartments), tastes good, and is fast (saving time). Yet you fool yourself if you think there's no correlation between economic status and obesity at all. The most obese state in the US is Mississippi, which also happens to be the poorest. You think that's merely a coincidence? Now, I would guess that it's not just fast food alone that has contributed to Mississippi's obesity problem, but it surely is a major component of it.
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:55 PM   #123
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

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Harvard is so overrated, overpriced too.
It's the blueberry of universities.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:00 AM   #124
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Harvard won't even let fat people view the campus, much less enroll. ****ing snobs.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:02 AM   #125
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Re: Fat People: Disgust and Social Stigma

Buying apples at McDonald's is so sad and weird that it's almost profound.
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