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*** WCOOP 2016 - Official Feedback Thread *** *** WCOOP 2016 - Official Feedback Thread ***

09-29-2016 , 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezdonkey

Back in the old days didn't PS use to have like monthly $530 Sunday Million and $1k Sunday Million every 3 months. Obviously current poker ecosystem probably cannot sustain such, but is there really any bigger buy-in tournaments between SCOOP and WCOOP?
The normal schedule has more higher buyins than ever I think, there are 2 1ks and a 700$ every sunday and lots of 300s and 200s throughout the week.
*** WCOOP 2016 - Official Feedback Thread *** Quote
09-29-2016 , 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezdonkey
I wouldn't mind seeing TCOOP replaced by some week-long series, which has real events, not just zzz shovefest.
Regarding the speed and structural depth of TCOOP, I think that you and some other players who have commented recently on this subject are forgetting - largely due to the fact that the most recent TCOOP finished over nine months ago - just how deep the structures are in TCOOP Events. The levels advance at Turbo speed, certainly... but by no means is any Turbo TCOOP Event a 'shovefest'. The rare Hyper-Turbo Events become such, naturally... but that's the nature of Hyper-Turbo, and honestly I'd prefer to eliminate Hyper-Turbos from TCOOP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezdonkey
Back in the old days didn't PS use to have like monthly $530 Sunday Million and $1k Sunday Million every 3 months. Obviously current poker ecosystem probably cannot sustain such, but is there really any bigger buy-in tournaments between SCOOP and WCOOP?
The $530 monthly and $1,050 quarterly editions of the Sunday Million were stopped in 2007.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soepgroente
The normal schedule has more higher buyins than ever I think, there are 2 1ks and a 700$ every sunday and lots of 300s and 200s throughout the week.
Absolutely correct. This sort of movement began many years ago now with the addition of the Super Tuesday, continued with the $320 Saturday which became the Saturday Super-Knockout, then continued with the Monday $530 PLO, the Wednesday $530 PLO/8, and then the $1,050 Thursday Thrill which was by far the most significant addition in terms of weekly high-stakes action. From there, the schedule continued to evolve and what we see now is, as you say, more high-stakes MTT action available than ever before.
*** WCOOP 2016 - Official Feedback Thread *** Quote
09-29-2016 , 01:45 PM
I mean Bryan tcoop is **** compared to literally every other tournament series in history there s no need to sugarcoat it. It takes the same rake for FAR worse structures and playing experiences and scoop and wcoop numbers back that up
*** WCOOP 2016 - Official Feedback Thread *** Quote
09-29-2016 , 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blakkman08
I mean Bryan tcoop is **** compared to literally every other tournament series in history there s no need to sugarcoat it. It takes the same rake for FAR worse structures and playing experiences and scoop and wcoop numbers back that up
TCOOP has its place, it seems like a really fun time, a way for regs and recs a like to let off some steam in some faster-paced tournaments with huge prizes available, I'd 100% play it if I could.

Maybe the events have a little less prestige than the other COOPs, but then again, does anyone truly believe that the winner of any one given tournament truly is the world champion aka best in the world in that event?

You say TCOOP has worse playing experiences than SCOOP and WCOOP, yet you seem to forget that these events by design are intended to have very different playing experiences. WCOOP is the long slog with 4 day events to grind out a winner, whereas TCOOP is a fun gambol, keyword fun, which poker is supposed to be after all. Personally, as someone who plays for profit but targets fun, I'd rather fire a $109 turbo where I can spin it up real quick or else move onto something else than play a $109 where I have to play for 10 hours just to bubble. That's not to say slow deep tournaments shouldn't exist but at the same time why do you have to say that turbo tournaments shouldn't exist for those that enjoy them. No one is forcing you to play them, after all.
*** WCOOP 2016 - Official Feedback Thread *** Quote
09-29-2016 , 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezdonkey
Time between WCOOP and SCOOP is pretty long. Obv there's TCOOP in the middle, but I don't think it serves any purpose anymore in 2016, because Spin & Gos have been around for a while and are an on-going replacement for Turbos (=high raked game which allows pros to have small +EV and recs minor -EV with very high variance and ability to bink big score in a short period of time.)

WCOOP challenge was nice in terms of buy-in and offering, but the x-mas edition was pretty awry for Europeans as far as timing goes, just 2 days before Christmas.

I wouldn't mind seeing TCOOP replaced by some week-long series, which has real events, not just zzz shovefest. From Sunday to Sunday in January, 12-14 events, e.g. $530 NL vanilla on first sunday, during week PLO 6-max/PLO HU/NL HU/NL 6-max/8-game/NL 6-max shootout/NL Omaha Hi-Lo/NL PSKO and $1k NL on last Sunday. Maybe some 8-max Super Tuesday replacement, 6-max LHE and draw poker or Stud event.

Back in the old days didn't PS use to have like monthly $530 Sunday Million and $1k Sunday Million every 3 months. Obviously current poker ecosystem probably cannot sustain such, but is there really any bigger buy-in tournaments between SCOOP and WCOOP?

1000000x this, we need one more big series during the year. Winter Online Poker Championship? But I think maybe 2-3 weeks in duration.
*** WCOOP 2016 - Official Feedback Thread *** Quote
09-29-2016 , 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISmellToast
Worst change by far of WCOOP was removing the bracelets imo, does this mean you guys are planning to cut SCOOP watches for next year?
Complete travesty cutting the bracelets. Expect the watches to be cut as well. I'd bet on it.
*** WCOOP 2016 - Official Feedback Thread *** Quote
09-30-2016 , 03:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soepgroente
The normal schedule has more higher buyins than ever I think, there are 2 1ks and a 700$ every sunday and lots of 300s and 200s throughout the week.
True yeah. However the 1k NL (I don't play PLO) starts 10:30pm where I live (FI) and runs for about 11-12 hours, I think? Starting tournaments this late usually takes a toll on trying to have some normal life outside of poker during the week. I'd imagine recreational players with real life & job commitments have it even more difficult to cope with this. For Canadian & Brazilian players the time slot is obviously ideal, and since most recreational players probably come from that region, I guess European players have to cope with it. (Although I don't have any data, I'd assume UK contributes to recreational player pool a lot.)

SCOOP/WCOOP are the two months of the year when it's worth the effort to turn your sleep schedule upside down for a longer period of time, as bigger/regular buy-in tournaments have 1M+ guarantees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanS-PS
[INDENT]Regarding the speed and structural depth of TCOOP, I think that you and some other players who have commented recently on this subject are forgetting - largely due to the fact that the most recent TCOOP finished over nine months ago - just how deep the structures are in TCOOP Events. The levels advance at Turbo speed, certainly... but by no means is any Turbo TCOOP Event a 'shovefest'. The rare Hyper-Turbo Events become such, naturally... but that's the nature of Hyper-Turbo, and honestly I'd prefer to eliminate Hyper-Turbos from TCOOP.
Wut? Took a glance at last TCOOP 2016 ME and chipleader had a massive 16bb's at the start of final table while everyone else had 10bb and under.
*** WCOOP 2016 - Official Feedback Thread *** Quote
09-30-2016 , 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezdonkey
Wut? Took a glance at last TCOOP 2016 ME and chipleader had a massive 16bb's at the start of final table while everyone else had 10bb and under.
The final table started at 20:30 ET, five hours after the Event started.

Accounting for breaks, that's about level 55... 700K/1400K (a175K). The blinds do have to progress as the tournament moves along. The fact that a Turbo even made it to Level 55 says plenty about how much depth there was leading up to that point (and throughout play). At some point, if you play long enough in any tournament without being eliminated, the blinds are going to catch up to the stacks.

Starting Stack: 20,000 chips

Level at the end of...

30 minutes: 40/80
60 minutes: 150/300
90 minutes: 500/1000
120 minutes: 1500/3000
150 minutes: 5000/10000

It takes until level 34, 170 minutes of play time into a Turbo, before the big blind is equivalent to 1 starting stack. In a typical Turbo on the site, that takes place 50 minutes earlier in Level 24. Even in the Hot Turbos, that point is reached 35 minutes earlier in Level 27.

Anyway, the point was that TCOOP Events are turbos, but they're *COOP turbo Events, with tons of room to play... not that they're deep as compared to other *COOP Events.

One other thing I noticed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezdonkey
True yeah. However the 1k NL (I don't play PLO) starts 10:30pm where I live (FI) and runs for about 11-12 hours, I think? Starting tournaments this late usually takes a toll on trying to have some normal life outside of poker during the week. I'd imagine recreational players with real life & job commitments have it even more difficult to cope with this. For Canadian & Brazilian players the time slot is obviously ideal, and since most recreational players probably come from that region, I guess European players have to cope with it. (Although I don't have any data, I'd assume UK contributes to recreational player pool a lot.)
Recreational players making a habit of playing $1Ks? That seems... odd, to say the least.
*** WCOOP 2016 - Official Feedback Thread *** Quote
09-30-2016 , 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezdonkey
SCOOP/WCOOP are the two months of the year when it's worth the effort to turn your sleep schedule upside down for a longer period of time, as bigger/regular buy-in tournaments have 1M+ guarantees.
Yeah, and if it ran 12 months of the year it wouldn't be sustainable. It is necessary for the rest of the time to be less interesting to make scoop/wcoop interesting. Not to mention many people would burn through their rolls and everything would quickly become smaller.
*** WCOOP 2016 - Official Feedback Thread *** Quote
10-01-2016 , 03:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanS-PS
Recreational players making a habit of playing $1Ks? That seems... odd, to say the least.
Are you suggesting that Pokerstars doesn't think recreational players are playing their weekly $1ks or want to encourage them to play? And that of the players who do play, that it's effectively all regs, with the money being made by good regs feeding off bad regs and the bad regs playing in search of fun players who don't exist? I doubt either of those things are true.
*** WCOOP 2016 - Official Feedback Thread *** Quote
10-01-2016 , 11:13 AM
MCOOP with structures mainly from between TCOOP and WCOOP could be fun. WCOOP structures would make all tournaments feel like marathons.
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