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WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold

03-30-2024 , 09:12 AM
So I fully admit this was partly an "I don't want to go home" fold but I'd like some objective opinions on whether it was also a bad fold.

The context is that I qualified for this event ($2k entry) online and this was the first major tournament I've ever played. In my hometown too. So I was REALLY looking forward to it and wanted to get the most out of the experience. I didn't go in with the mindset of just trying to last as long as possible, but I did go in planning to take a lower variance approach than I would in other tournaments. This was a deep, 3-day event (40 min blinds, 200bb starting stacks).

So we're getting pretty late in the day and on the last level before the dinner break. I got off to a decent start but the deck has been ice cold since the last break, so now I'm hovering around 30bb at 1k/1.5k/1.5k when this hand comes up.

I'm in early position and look down at AA, the first I've seen all day. I put in a minraise to 3k and a guy who recently joined the table defends his big blind. He was an Asian guy in his mid-late 30's I'd guess. Nothing really stood out about him but he had a decent stack of chips and had that air about him like he knew what he was doing. Although it seemed that everyone at my table knew what they were doing. Nobody stood out as a clear weak player.

So we see a flop of J64r with 10k in the pot. He checks. It's a pretty good flop for his defending range and my hand doesn't need protection from overpairs, so I decided to check behind to disguise the strength.

Turn: 6. He fires out 7500. I think, "Damn, that's a large bet. Now he really has the nuts advantage but since I've disguised my strength, this could be an attempt to push me off a middling pair or overcards." So I call.

River: 8. I don't remember the suits but there was no FD on the flop and no flush completed on the turn. He puts me all in. I go into the tank - partly because there was some **** going down with a guy who was being a dick at the table and the floor was called to speak to him, so I was a bit distracted - but also because it was a tough spot. What ran through my head was, "He can have so many strong hands here, my turn call should have slowed him down. Do I really want to call off with AA before the dinner break after looking forward to this tournament? Bad calls are worse than bad folds." So I folded.
WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold Quote
03-30-2024 , 11:28 AM
His range should be very polarized here, right? Either 6X, 75, 44 or 88 or some complete air or next to it. I'm not sure I agree your range seems very strong OTT. That's because you checked back OTF and just called Turn. TT, 99, 77 or AQs or AKs if turn gave a flush draw seems like hands he could have put you on. Even an overpair that is afraid for 6X and gets even more afraid when the river makes a straight possible. So a bluff definately seems possible. But mostly his range should be very strong. Jx or even J8 I suspect would have made a lower valuebet.

I believe I would have folded too. Even so if it had been a BI like $300 instead.

Last edited by SwedishNit; 03-30-2024 at 11:33 AM.
WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold Quote
03-30-2024 , 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishNit
His range should be very polarized here, right? Either 6X, 75, 44 or 88 or some complete air or next to it. I'm not sure I agree your range seems very strong OTT. That's because you checked back OTF and just called Turn. TT, 99, 77 or AQs or AKs if turn gave a flush draw seems like hands he could have put you on. Even an overpair that is afraid for 6X and gets even more afraid when the river makes a straight possible. So a bluff definately seems possible. But mostly his range should be very strong. Jx or even J8 I suspect would have made a lower valuebet.

I believe I would have folded too. Even so if it had been a BI like $300 instead.
With my stack size I'm not calling such a large flop bet with missed overs, so I think my call does strengthen my range.
WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold Quote
03-30-2024 , 01:55 PM
What position was he in?
WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold Quote
03-30-2024 , 03:34 PM
Not sure there was any benefit in checking back flop. Regardless of the buyin we should be going for value here.
WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold Quote
03-30-2024 , 05:52 PM
Flop should just be a range bet. I wouldn't really say it's good for his defending range - he has a tonne of trash and you have a large range advantage here. That said, the point of checking back was to try and induce something, so I wouldn't fold once I get here. Of course, the runout isn't great, but I think this is what we were hoping for after we checked back. It's quite reasonable for him to value worse as well (Jx).
WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold Quote
03-31-2024 , 02:24 AM
As played I would call the river all in bet. You under-repped your hand on the flop and in theory you could have jammed the turn as well with an overpair. If I am going to try to trick a player into betting the turn and river then I am going to call unless there are 4 to a straight or flush out there. Not the case here. Its life in a tournament. Sometimes you get knocked out with AA, so be it. But doubling up here is crucial to going deep.

Checking back the flop makes no sense to me. I would bet 3000. If Villain has any pair he will call. If he has 2 pair he will possibly raise and you can figure it out at that point. Villain will possibly call with gutters. But because there are no double draws out there a raise will not likely be a semi-bluff like with 75. There are also no possible gutters with overcards.

Checking back the turn after betting the flop would be ideal especially because the board pairs. Then Villain will put out the 7500 bet on the river and you call and find out if you got unlucky.
WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold Quote
03-31-2024 , 09:28 AM
I definitely agree checking the flop was a mistake. I was overthinking the spot and shouldn't be messing around with pot control at this stage. Or possibly under-thinking since we were close to dinner break and I was starving.

I definitely don't agree that he's betting Jx here though. That sizing is very polarized.
WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold Quote
03-31-2024 , 09:42 AM
Definitely cbet the flop. Save your checks for paired boards that are relatively benign. For example if this were J44r you can mix in a check.

Note that your passive play has actually increased your variance since you’re now in no man’s land and don’t know what to do. Bet the flop and you have a much more clear picture.

I’m calling river. The guy knows you’re the scared player and can just be pushing you around. Also you’re extremely under repped as noted earlier ITT. You also beat some value like KJ, AJ.
WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold Quote
04-01-2024 , 02:31 PM
The best way to be deceptive on dry flops as the preflop raiser like this is to bet small with your entire range, including overpairs. In this specific scenario, your hand is very strong, you unblock top pair, and you are at a stack depth where this is a great spot to play for your stack to try to double up. So you should bet the flop and try to play the hand for three streets to eventually get all your money in (assuming the runout is safe enough).

I'm not sure what your actual goal is with this line, unless it's "avoid putting my money in because I can't bust if I don't put my money in"-- and you can't play any tournament successfully with that mindset.

I guess I call as played because my hand is so much stronger than I've represented and I've given no reason for villain to even think he's making a mistake shoving Jx for value here.
WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold Quote
04-01-2024 , 05:58 PM
Yeah, 30 BB pre, headsup with AA I definitely want to end up getting stacks in on all but the most garbage of runouts. He just can't beat you often enough to make it not worth it.
WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold Quote
04-01-2024 , 06:42 PM
How is there 10K in the pot on the flop? I count 8.5K.

Seems really badly played.
WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold Quote
04-01-2024 , 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceblocker
How is there 10K in the pot on the flop? I count 8.5K.

Seems really badly played.
You are correct, I forgot to factor in that he already had his big blind in.
WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold Quote
04-07-2024 , 07:39 PM
Raise should have been higher preflop. Definitely want to bet flop. And you want to raise when he bets in the hand how it was actually played.

You have aces. The only way you can win the tournament is by playing to win the tournament.
WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold Quote
04-08-2024 , 05:12 AM
Like is he really donking full pot on the turn vs your check back with anything that beats an overpair? Your call looks like A high a bunch or maybe TT etc. I think we have to call river and I think we win a ton.
WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold Quote
04-08-2024 , 09:22 AM
You're all correct. Now that I can reflect on it more than a week later I can see how bad this was. I was hungry and desperately wanted to get some dinner and didn't want to make a careless call to bust out. All part of my inexperience playing live tourneys I guess.
WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold Quote
04-08-2024 , 11:57 AM
I don't hate the flop check back some small % of the time. I agree that it does disguise your hand. The problem is that it makes things a bit difficult for you later on in this spot. But it also gives the other player some rope to hang himself.

As played, I think you have to call this river. Your hand looks weaker than it is. You have to wonder what this player is going to have such a large over bet with. Does he really do this with 65 or 44? It looks more like a bluff than a value bet. You gave him a chance to bluff at the pot.
WSOPC main - an "I don't want to go home" fold Quote

      
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