Very strange staking situation

[FakeKramer]

Thay3r:
but stealing is +EV pretty much always

Def disagree here. Gotta think bigger picture. Stealing discourages production (shopkeeper worries about more stealing, hikes up prices, people can't buy as much... etc).

Bond/Bakes, you guys are being too nice. I'd spread this guy's real name along with this story to all ends of the earth. I'd get t-shirts made saying "[So and So] stole $9,000 from me" and wear it at the WSOP. You guys are clearly adversaries here. Simple game theory then is: do what he doesn't want you to do.

[timex]

Originally Posted by FakeKramer

Def disagree here. Gotta think bigger picture. Stealing discourages production (shopkeeper worries about more stealing, hikes up prices, people can't buy as much... etc).

If you actually believe this, you are a huge huge idiot

Edit: removed a bunch of huges

[Eagles]

Haven't read the whole thread, but once someone steals 10k+ of my money they stop being a friend of mine.

also lol at the theif saying that he doesn't want to payback bond more than he stole because of how bond handled the situation. I mean it doesn't surprise me because the guy is a POS scumbag thief but it still made me laugh.

[konar]

Originally Posted by Bond18

Now then, my last email told him he could either use the 900 dollars in the account to grind microstakes and make something of himself or just tell me what he'd done. He never replied.

If this is true, I think you have a legit claim to a portion of the win. While done with the noble intentions of helping a friend, antivirus effectively hijacked your action.

[zedveron]

Originally Posted by LooseCaller

can someone please explain to me why the hell this guy owes them 60% of the 190k?

he stole 9k or 13k of their money and then completely cut off contact with them. i would think at this point the staking agreement is pretty much ****ed.

he then played an event bond and bakes wouldnt have put him in and made a bunch of money.

i think if you told this to anyone outside of the poker community they would say he robbed you and he should be prosecuted. plus you should get your money back.

the idea that he was still somehow on your stake at the point he won the mansion 1k just doesnt make sense to me.

if you disagree with my logic, and still think they're "entitled" to 60%, i think a more practical argument against it would be "there is absolutely no ****ing way in hell you will ever get that amount of money and have no legal way of forcing him to pay you it all"

Objectively, this.

[FakeKramer]

Originally Posted by timex

If you actually believe this, you are a huge huge idiot

Edit: removed a bunch of huges

[ ] counterargument defending stealing as +EV in the longrun.

[yoyo]

Originally Posted by FakeKramer

Def disagree here. Gotta think bigger picture. Stealing discourages production (shopkeeper worries about more stealing, hikes up prices, people can't buy as much... etc).

This logic is just retarded. Stealing is almost always +EV for individuals for the simple reason that the people they steal from are usually not prepared to spend more money chasing bad money. Add the fact that the vast majority of people are unable to get revenge or provide a legitimate deterrent in the form of physcial injuries for moral, legal, or administrative reasons.

The stupidity that is 'religion' was created as a crafty way to discourage the poor from stealing from the rich. It was brilliant on so many levels, as an effective bluff for stupid people.

I am owed money by many people, and will simply not entertain talk of physical retribution for moral and legal reasons. It would be hugely +EV to steal from me, I can't do much, if anything, to provide a deterrent against it and will not actively seek -EV revenge. The vast majority of people who steal do so out of desperation, poverty or sickness. Only gangsters and mafia characters cut off fingers or put people in hospital over unpaid debts, and they only do this to discourage future borrowers from stealing.

People that talk tough about how they'd inflict physical damage on defaulters and criminals are just misguided, although I can totally empthasise with the emotion. But putting a theif or a loan defaulter in hospital or worse is an even worse crime. You're physically hurting someone who is likely poverty-stricken or has mental illness in the form of addiction, which needs medical treatment. Cutting peoples' fingers off solves nothing, and just makes you a retarded animal.

[FakeKramer]

I think you're being short-sighted and missing my point.

Yes, when a hoodlum walks into a store, robs the register, and gets away with it, for the hoodlum (and the hoodlum only - which is a very narrow, small-minded way of viewing it) that stealing was +EV. But even saying that is being results-oriented (ie: irrational). What if he had gotten caught?! But I digress.

Now let's look at the bigger picture:

The girl who was behind the counter now needs to go to therapy. That costs money.

The storeowner now wants to install state of the art security features in his store. That will cost money.

The cops spend an hour of their time taking down the theft report. That cost taxpayers money.

Do you think this is an efficient way for the world to be spending its resources?

I'm disappointed you guys actually think stealing is +EV. Especially timex. It's like... uhh... ever wonder why you don't do it?!?!

[THAY3R]

Originally Posted by FakeKramer

I think you're being short-sighted and missing my point.

Yes, when a hoodlum walks into a store, robs the register, and gets away with it, for the hoodlum (and the hoodlum only - which is a very narrow, small-minded way of viewing it) that stealing was +EV

Umm......... LDO???


Are you trying to say that if I steal 20 bucks from someone there is not a net +EV for the combined parties?

Get outta here!

[FakeKramer]

Maybe I've misunderstood what your stance is in this thread, Thay3r. In that last post, it seems that you're indicating you realize that stealing is a net -EV for society. When earlier you said "stealing is pretty much always +EV," I kind of thought you were... you know... saying the exact opposite.

[THAY3R]

Bakes was complaining how it's +ev for a backee to steal money from backers.

I replied that stealing is pretty much always +EV.

[timex]

I was considering making a thread about a hand I played today until I realized that no option I could choose was +EV since chips cannot be created nor destroyed.

[garcia1000]

Hey guys,

I think it is important to have a written agreement when lending a significant amount of money to people. Otherwise, lending oft lose both itself and friend!