bump. because it still should be on the stars agenda to lower the rake in turbo tournaments. imo

$150 for sharkscope?

as if it isnt expected that an ongame 100$ freezout is gonna be much softer than a stars 100$ turbo...that looks like common sense to me...

lower the rake

bump because this thread should not be ignored

It really does need to be lowered.

Faster structures = faster games, = more rake/hour for stars than regs speeds, yet they are much higher variance and have lowered edges and are raked the same as reg speeds for no reason.

The rake where it is at now for turbos will kill them over the next year or 2.

Please consider fixing it at least.

The high volume players play lots of games, they can not watch game flow. A 2nd tier winning player could have a higher roi than they top players if they are playing fewer games. I used to at the 45 mans on FT back inthe day because I did not play the volume like most regs.

Bad players will make mistakes regardless of the structure.

Players not having as high of an ROI as they could because they aren't playing as well as they could isn't a very good argument for anything.

Hourly > ROI for most people.

Just because the game is beatable doesn't mean it's profitable for you to play it, and just because it's profitable to play in it doesn't mean you should.

When the cost of a weak players mistake goes down because there are fewer streets to be played, a good players expectation decreases. As a result, his bankroll needs to increase or he will take a pay cut and/or expose himself to additional risk of ruin. Meanwhile, the losing players who don't need/have a bankroll and the breakeven players too foolish to stop playing those tournaments get to ride the wave of variance a little longer; good players don't have much of an edge against even the biggest drooler when players are usually flipping over their hands before the turn card is dealt. The site takes the same cut regardless. Everyone isn't a winner in this scenario. The regs lose because their opportunity cost for taking an occupation so risky, stressful, radically different, often criticized, and unfairly judged is quite a bit lower than it's ever been and the site knows this yet won't make the changes to reflect that.

It's interesting that rake for hyper turbos is reduced and Stars implements degressive rake structures after the $50 level in most games for the exact reasons that everyone wants turbo rake reduced, while turbo rake remains the same as it has been forever despite the games changing.

Payout structures for turbos need to be made flatter and rake needs to be reduced.

I spoke to a friend of mine who works for Stars doing online community stuff earlier about this and his advice was to get as many people to email ideas@pokerstars.com as possible with our reasons/complaints/suggestions and referencing this thread. How about someone knocks up a template email and we all email Stars en mass? We can let people know in the Stars MTT / MTTSNG suggestion threads too?

Great idea chaant !

awesome idea

Awesome stuff. Would someone mind volunteering to draft an email? I'm happy to do it but I don't think my understanding of all the issues make me the best man for the job. When we have a draft I'm happy to start cross-posting it and getting on to people on Twitter etc.

ongame/party give us 1 buck discount for 100+8 mtt game

nice , let's do this !

Has anyone taken the time to outline what an optimal rake would be for both sides? I think it's obvious that the rake should be gradually reduced. It's easy to say Stars reduce the rake but where are they supposed to put it?

$200+$15 should become $200+$10?
$100+$9 becomes $100+$6
$50+$5 becomes $50+$4

10+1 > 10+.50

20+2 > 20+1

30+3 > 30+1.5

40+4 > 40+2

50+5 > 50+2.5

70+7 > 70+3

100+9 > 100+ 3.5

200+15 > 200+ 7

Above is what it should be.

i agreeish but gotta be realistic, i would aim for like 1.5 times what prot wrote.

Hello Pokerstars staff,

We of 2p2 mtter's comm feel that u are breaking us with ur atrocious turbo raking which is grossly unjustified based on the fact that edges in these are very minimal and reducing by the day. We understand and appreciate the service you provide us but it in no way makes up for the current rake pricing you employ for turbos. Even the beast elite turbo bosses have very small expectant ROIs in these.

We would like to bring your attention to the presence of a wonderfully worded thread
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/61...ssion-1185862/
which precisely outlines the general ramblings of the regs' thoughts and opinions. The pricing if lowered would stand to benefit both us as well as you and enough evidence has been provided as to how and why. Multiple suggestions have been given on what would be ideal and it sure wouldn't hurt you to have a look see. If you would just take a little time out of your busy schedule to go over this and make the right decision(Read LOWER TURBO RAKE ASAP), we would be quite grateful to you.

Love,

Pissed off MTT 2p2ers

I agree with this.

Yeah, but if we start where prot's suggesting it's a good starting point for negotiations, no?

A negotiation can only exist with leverage. Here, the players essentially have no leverage. So there isn't really a "negotiation."

Yeah, I was kinda aware of that as I was typing it out but it's late & I've had a couple of beers lol. Will get back to this in the morning.

I'd agree the players have no direct leverage but all the people who choose not to play 109's and especially 215's (including me on weekdays) due to edges being too small for the enormous variance will continue to not play them along with the recreational players they would have encouraged to play due to a bigger 1st prize. For the higher stakes turbos the regs are very important to build the prizepool as they are such a huge % of the field, when more and more work out they have near zero or negative expectation the fields will decrease.

I have no problem with there being a lot of turbo mtts as I enjoy them and so do recreational players but stars needs to see that they have to be beatable for a reasonable amount by a good reg or else over time they will not grow in size or fields will actually decrease. I'm sure recreational players also see that they are being charged the same rake for a mtt that takes maybe less that 1/2 the time. It makes stars seem greedy and is near the only thing (apart from there being zero mtt sats to $100+ turbo mtts) that bothers me about the site.