giggity

while i know most 2+2'ers hate time tourneys, i play them occasionally.

The rake at 10% on the 15min and 30min ones is ridiculous.

15min starts at 15bb with antes (2k chips 50/100/10) 5min blinds
30min starts at 20bb with antes (1.5k chips 50/100/10) 5min blinds

rake on these should be like 1% especially as this tournament type was created for recs.

Huge +1. If they must stay, make it close to fair.

Make turbos 1.5x VPP or something to shave a few points off the rake for grinders and not hurt stars bottom line with the normies

+1000000000000000

like this idea alot

wow nice graphs!
tx for the work, maybe you should try running it without my stats tho, pretty sure graph will look way better... Serious question...

best idea itt

I wonder if they will ever do anything about this?

would be interesting to see the results since

+1

Ya it's quite ridiculous overall, but the most ridic thing is satellite rake.

How is that a $215 turbo sat that starts with 1500 chips and has 5 min levels and a bad structure have the same rake as a $215 turbo guaranteed mtt that starts with 3k chips and has a better structure....and then on top of that has the same amount of rake as any regular speed $215 FO....just plain robbery

agree, stars policy on mtt rake is not consistent with their policy on rake in all other formats they offer

I do like to try and satellite into stuff a lot, and they are an area of concern that I have

so, looking at this from the point of view of freezeout satellites, let's examine the standard turbo satty structure which they run for all the daily Bigs (and Hots and some other daily tourneys) and compare it to the targets, which usually also have 10% rake

this satty structure has 10% rake, starts with just 1k chips and the blinds go up every 5 minutes as follows

10/20
15/30
25/50
50/100
75/150
100/200
150/300
200/400
300/600
400/800
600/1200


there's no 125/250, no 250/500, no 500/1000, and after just 50 minutes play a single big blind jumps to larger than the starting stack

yet it's the same rake % as the target itself, where it takes 4hr 10 mins play (in daily Bigs) for a single big blind to get to larger than the starting stack, and a massive 5 hrs in Sunday Biggers (6x as long as in the satty)


I would be happy if they dropped the satty rake quite a bit and then simultaneously delayed the start of them a bit too, so that they virtually never finished before the target started, making it effectively must play

if they do that then the tiny amount they lose in rake on the satty would be recovered in extra rake on the target, because at the moment there are many who just play to win the satty and unreg for the target. my real preference would be that a satty still finished before the target, with a fairer rake, and with it imposssible to then unreg if you get in via satty, making the first win always must play but you can begin at the very first hand, but that might need some work on the software (idk though, because it's not possible to unreg from megapath stuff)

by forcing people to actually play the target, which would also be restoring the original ethos of satellites, you would probably make the sats a little softer again by deterring people from just grinding sats for a couple of hours with no intent to play actual events

just want to say this should only be for sats which point to the daily stuff like Bigs though, obviously satties for the real headline stuff like the milli and super tuesday, plus wcoop/scoop/tcoop stuff and liveaments, those satties have to run for a lot longer during the week

I'm sure there are also issues with a lot of their rebuy satties too, but I don't play those too often, usually only an occasional 3x-turbo, so not so sure about the problems they regularly have


also, I think mtts should be like sng rake policy, where they grade the rake depending on the tournament, rather than having the same rake % for a headsup turbo mtt as for a 9max regular mtt


a fair relative rake structure should generally look something like this imo

regular > reg satty = turbo > turbo satty > hyper > hyper satty


with some reductions for when it's HU or 4max, and obviously also reduced rake as buyin goes up



btw, sorry that this post was longer than originally planned

they bought ftp, were boned

Great post. I agree with your logic about the sats being more must play and think that it would both benefit Stars and the players.

thanks

just want to clarify, I would rather the sats were kept early enough to finish before the start, but made must-play, rather than delaying them so you miss the start of the target

satting into the hotter 55 half an hour after it starts, with the blinds at 40/80, is not great

some of the dead money is already in the hands of better players, plus you're already starting with a stack below 40 bb, so it's a double whammy, and somewhat offsets the benefit of getting in cheaply if you're a decent player who just doesn't have the roll to pony up for $55 turbos

bump, id like to see TT's graphs to see how ****ed we are, we should have quite good sample for this year

its not rediculous because all the regs are stupid enough to pay the rake. I'm quitting most turbos on all sites untill they improve the rake situation.

When I search the alias, the lock symbol comes up as if the stats are blocked. But Sharkscope lets me search each player individually. If I have trouble getting to sleep tonight, I'll compile the stats myself... shouldn't take long.

I think the logic of this post rings pretty true. As long as people keep paying it then there isn't going to be much change (and in a lot of ways Stars would be silly to not charge as much as they can get away with for as long as they can)

That's why threads like this are important to hopefully get some change for what has been made abundantly clear/ reiterated many times. The rake on turbos doesn't make sense

therakeistoodamnhigh.jpg

I hope this will be brought up when the reps from the community have the next round of PokerStars meetings

It comes up if anyone (or more) of the entire alias is blocked, you should still be able to search the group and it will exclude the blocked stats. Unless it's changed so you can't search a group with anyone blocked anymore..

Ah okay. I bet one or two guys blocked their stats and are ****ing up my experiment. I'll fix this

Signed... agree with making turbos 5% rake, or making it 1.5x VPP.

We're down to 35 players in the sample. 7 or 8 guys opted out. If I had to guess, they're probably players who are having bad years rather than good ones -- so the aggregate ROI for the group is likely even lower than what's shown.

Also, I was unable to generate a graph. Blame it on SharkScope and their lame new format.

-----

Overall, they've now played 59,170 games. They've profited $606,446 for an ROI of just 8.2%. Remember - these results are for scheduled turbo or hyper-turbo MTTs, with a buyin of $36+ (essentially $44 turbos and up), with 1,000 or fewer entrants.

Here's a player-by-player breakdown with the names blacked out. I really wish I could give you guys a graph, but this is the best I could do.

I know there are going to be critics who disparage these players' abilities. Let's be real, though. While these aren't the top 35 tournament players in the world by any stretch, they have very strong results.

I'd like to point out this same group of players' results in normal-structured and deep-stacked MTTs in the same time frame (Jan 21, 2012 to present).

They've played 76,710 such games. They've profited $2,917,287 for an ROI of 21.9%.

Let me also point out the 35 players included in this sample:

nigdawg(PokerStars)
flush_entity(PokerStars)
vinkyy(PokerStars)
theczar19(PokerStars)
kleath(PokerStars)
pipedream17(PokerStars)
g's zee (PokerStars)
pkaiser(PokerStars)
munchenhb(PokerStars)
1banditpanda(PokerStars)
big huni(PokerStars)
imdanuts(PokerStars)
illini213(PokerStars)
moorman1(PokerStars)
renrad 01 (PokerStars)
bananazoo(PokerStars)
p0cket00(PokerStars)
squee451(PokerStars)
betudontbet(PokerStars)
jymaster11(PokerStars)
wushutm(PokerStars)
ohraisydaisy(PokerStars)
schildy1984(PokerStars)
cal42688(PokerStars)
naza114(PokerStars)
uhhmee(PokerStars)
810ofclubs(PokerStars)
monster_dong(PokerStars)
gm_valter(PokerStars)
rdcrsn(PokerStars)
adrian900123(PokerStars)
jalman69(PokerStars)
pyszalek(PokerStars)
bigoots(PokerStars)
flashdisastr(PokerStars)

I hope this wasn't a waste of time. Not sure what I'm really trying to "achieve" other than maybe educating an up-and-coming midstakes grinder. I think that having the discipline to avoid high stakes, small edge tournaments like the Stars 109 cubed turbo is often the difference between playing on your own versus playing backed. Save your shots for soft majors on Euro sites instead.

Remember guys... playing on your own DOUBLES your winrate.