i let the woat poster troll me. whats my life come to.

Ok I asked for others' opinions because I thought your post, as parker has stated already, lacks logic.

Just like what I stated in PM, unless you are valuing makeup at 0 cents on the dollar, comparing the two as "freerolls" really makes no ****ing sense.

Sure, stripped to its bare definition, both makeup and markup deals can yield 0 financial risk for the horse, but markup deals where the horse is freerolling can yield results where the package loses while the horse still profits. This does not occur with makeup deals, which is probably why most people aren't nearly as concerned with "0 financial risk" in a long term makeup deal. Obviously it would be very scummy to quit a deal in makeup if you're not quitting poker altogether. Maybe you think it's acceptable for horses to quit in makeup, and that's why you think "freerolls" are standard and always acceptable (I sure hope not but you're not surprising me at the moment).

I'm sorry you're mad because I don't agree with your analogy. In fact, I think your analogy was more misleading in prot's thread than what two shae posted.

I asked for more input from other posters about your quote because I'm wondering if other people think like you. Apparently so far, that answer is no.

And yea, in before "**** you bitch" response.

you just might be a stone idiot if you compare irl freerolls and being backed, unless that's how you approach being backed, then I sincerely hope no one has to deal with backing you.

someone edit the title...so tilting to look at

can only charge MU if you can proof-read title before posting!

Completely Butchered: 0% MU
1-2 words incorrectly spelled: 1.01-1.05% MU
Their vs. They're (or other incorrect apostrophes): 1.06-1.09% MU
Use ****** to make "Offical" thread: 1.1-1.2% MU

This would probably be Timex approved if he didn't hurt his eyes staring so freaking long at the title!

lol

Hello all,

I read some of the post above but not all.

have couple questions, and i appreciate to hear your opinions on it.

1.lets say that you have a roi of >90 from a live mtt samplesize of lets say only 300 mtts. In fields from 60 to 1000 runners and from buy-ins from 60 to 3000$ without puting any filter on it. Is it fair to ask for a mu for at least 1.4 or not ? if not then why not?

2.If your game is strong by numbers (lets say you have a final table achieving rate of >20% of the samplesize above) and you want to take those Mus just to cover your expenses , just to get there to play those bigger mtts, which you are not rolled enough strictly mathwise by yourself, and at the same time people want to see big results (which you obv dont have so far) to back you up. how can you break true this circle in a proper way in your opinion? is it not bigtime -ev to just trying to steping up by playing smaller mtts for years?

3.what is the biggest mu that a guy with the stats above can ask for without getting in tons of stupid comments and mistrust from scratch?

sorry for probably not using the right words for the matter but i think and hope that you guys understands what i am asking about. thank you for your opinions in advance

Math is hard.

1. The problem with your logic is that past results don't equal future results. Your true winrate for the next 100 games might only be 20%, which makes 1.4mu a very bad buy. People want to expect decent profit for taking on risk.

2. Furthermore, results against the worst players at small stakes live tournaments don't always translate to bigger buyin tournaments where there are better players.

3. Maybe 1.3 if they are a known 2p2 poster who has demonstrated his knowledge through posts on the forum. Easy to run hot in a few poker tournaments, hard to fake knowing how to play well through words.

Amazed i just found this thread.

Ok so my issue with the marketplace is the online daily sellers.

Only selling to the high stakes and tougher midstakes part of their schedule while often 20 tabling in total and playing everything that they are significantly +ev in for themselves.

Will use a example of a high volume seller who is losing on stars this year which is 90% of the games they sell for cant check ftp sharkscope seems to be restricted.

http://gyazo.com/3aa764e0e0c19d3c8857079805aa3e34

Basicly $45k down for the year in games they sell for and winning at a reasonable rate for games they keep for themselves all the while charging between 1.15 and 1.2.

People say its a free market and i agree but this is pure exploitation and being a scumbag.

These players have large networks of poker friends i assume and if its such a great buy why not sell to friends instead of random people on 2+2 who don't know better.

I stopped selling on 2+2 a while ago just sell to friends at a fair markup because i have a conscience and wouldn't knowingly dupe people.

Yea, there are bad packages on the marketplace. That isn't really news, as was the reason this thread was started way back when. Buyers need to research before giving money to every person who posts a package. Not everyone does, clearly, and so bad packages often time find buyers.

Also, many packages are extremely subjective. Past results do not equate someones EVROI for a day or tournament. The randomness of large field tournaments means Winning OR Losing in the past does not tell us definitively how well that person will do in the future. The marketplace is overrun with both buyers and sellers that fall into that fallacy.

Basically, it is very hard to say a package is really bad.

This makes no sense to me u might have to explain it for me.

This is relevant in live packages and the odd random sunday packages i agree with huge variance and alot bigger roi. Not so much selling to small field high stakes weekday mtts every day.

How else do you measure ev except with the previous results. Of course if u play the sunday million once and win it its means nothing but these are long term results wish large sample sizes.

Results at the games they are selling for specificly should dictate markup. Losing for a year, 2 years at higher stakes games and continually selling for 1.2 at them isnt ignorance its having no moral compass.

tellem katie!

I prefer being a profitable reg over being a mp-exploiter like khanrava, aguskb, lfmagic etc

shots fired

Just a simple example to show how past results don't dictate EV of a future played tournaments.

Here we have 1000 sample high stakes tournament players. They all are break even and played 3000 small field tournaments. They played a hypothetical year of $109 tournaments with this distribution.

Now, in 2015 you have 1000 players trying to sell action in the market place. All of them are -ev buys (because in this example we know they are 0% ROI players), but since you look only at past results you see some players who look like great players and some players who 'lack moral compass'.

I would say buying only from players who you have seen play and respect their game is a good starting point.

Popcorn is cooking.

Quite emotional post, but it's hard to disagree.
However you said it yourself, it's a free market and I think this case there's no place to question moral.

If the product they've been being offered to buy is so bad buyers should show ability to adjust and just start sorting it out instead of complaining.

Like I didn't mind in past to make mutually profitable deals with guys who want to reduce variance until I've realized it's not their main goal.

If someone isnt smart enough and keep donating then it will be immoral to actually help him realize this bc no one actually MAKE him to buy anything and it's smth he's doing on his own will.

Yes it was emotional i agree it infuriates me.

Poker is tougher than its ever been i work hard to make a reasonable living for myself. Why should a little club of exploiters be able to use this forum to make a easier living than every other mtt pro who doesnt undertake these terrible practises?

I used to call them out in their threads but this is pointless and saw this thread as a way to call them out without going after anyone personally.

kids so right though, so many people scamming the MP daily

WTB title edit.

Regs that dont post their graph but post what they've shippidity dipped in 2008 annoy me

Even better are the guys that regularly scam the marketplace selling for a tough schedule/liveaments while being backed ****s. Without even ever mentioning it in the OP of course.

FREE MARKET THO