maxkatz? i know of other really sick investments that happend off 2p2 that my buddies did well in. But there are some 2p2 mp regs that do pretty well for them selves.

I'm not exactly sure what the question is. But I think we all would love to have a private horse who is crushing 9-180mans. And even still, there is a lot less variance in 9mans than 180s.

And obviously the scores in 500+ MTTs are going to be much much bigger. All of this factors into risk reward.

Using my package as an example, is it likely to hit a 100k+ score. No. And there are lots of packages of great NLHE players playing every MTT on the weekend who do have a shot at this.

However, it is quite easy for the NLHE players to brick an entire schedule week after week, just because of the variance. high risk/variance -> high reward

Now, in the non-nlhe games, fields are smaller, and for a good player itms of 25%+ are absolutely able to be maintained longer-term. With these two factors, I am likely to cash more frequently, but there won't be huge scores. lower risk/variance -> lower reward.

Depends what you are looking for as a backer. My packages are less likely to bust, but I am not likely to be hitting a 50k+ score either.

Why do you think any MP seller should try to devalue their product by making it seem less attractive? No market place that I'm aware of ever works that way.

You can argue that the community nature makes the 2p2 MP different and that people should try to justly value their packages, but you forget that this community is made up of delusional players who all think they are better than they are.

It's not rape. Do you not understand how markets work? Nobody is holding a knife to the investors' throats saying "you must buy this!". If you don't like the markup someone charges, you don't invest. If others agree with your opinion of the markup, they won't buy either, and the seller will either lower his mu or he won't be selling any action.

I understand no one is ever forcing the sale, i see what u mean. @Doggz yea this community is full of comedians, but not sayin op should ever devalue their package but their has to be some kind of median no?

Yup.
I also thing its so f funny that people will snatch up shares of a guy with 5% roi over last 2 years selling at 1.2 but will reject someone selling main event at 1.4 with an online roi of 60% lol. Yes i think there should be some packages selling at 1.5 in the MP when it still leaves 20% average return for investors but I've never seen it.

do you know the dif between ROI and variance and how it pertains to field sizes?

of course. but if you like, I'd be very interested in what you have to say about it and how you think about your investing/what are good deals to you.

i dont understand this discussion. its a MARKETPLACE, people. if someone sells their package out, who are you to judge that their MU is too high? if it sells, it sells.

Read the entire thread

its an open discussion forum on markup obv your input is appreciated

This thread went down hill fast. zzzzzzz.

you think it was a good thread to start with?

i think looking at some of the packages, particularly the live ones where on average there are less tournaments per package.. some of the mark ups are slightly high, but as my old foe drift said, if they´re selling, thats all that matters.. now alot of guys cant play online i suppose they are more inclined to invest in others.. its just a question of whether this is threadworthy and inexperienced investors should be given free information from knowledgable guys. Afterall it hurts the sellers.

Great points op, and only tryin to hear different valid opinions on the matter of markup etc...TT_Fold made a great read , im sure many more to come.
As far as zima goes, he is hear to pick on drkam who had a really good read as well.

I see stuff in the store all the time that I think is overpriced, should I start a thread about it or just not buy?

Not much to say other than it is a seller's market.

I will almost never charge > 1.25 if I sell action. Maybe the main or something.

Once people run out of money and better packages start getting posted, things will level out.

Here is a more hypothetical example if a player sells action for a series of events at 20% markup and wiffs no cashes it happens.However next year his opr drops by 15% does op deserve same markup?

for retail example if sales drop on an overpriced item, what do you do to sell more?

thread is a good read

So if drkamikaze is charging a price for business expenses for live tournament packages, by the same logic, she should start charging a price for food delivery for her online packages? You know, business expenses...

And the below quoted from one of her live packages is simply absurd.

How is this different from forcing people to tip you? Or are you claiming your "business expenses" are directly related to the success of your package?

he doesn't "deserve" anything. If buyers want to invest, great. If not, lower the price.

deserves got nothing to do with it

paging munk lol hes hilarious and always on point with this topic

Not a bad thread kind of like the open discussion tbh, but if we could keep it more on track instead of Zima having his way with kamikaz playing who knows more about the MP, this thread could have some potential for open discussion possibly (jk zima)

1. How to find the correct amount of mark up to charge

To me when I see a high MU, you better have stats to back it up, let alone the event(s) you're selling, you better be +EV in. And what I mean by +EV and not everyone will agree with me on this, is that you have a track record of playing 1K's if thats what you selling action to, you have cashed in a similar field and are familiar with the structure of the MTT and perhaps even the venue. People saying all the time "I'm def. +EV in this event" has really ran its course IMO.

I don't sell a lot of packages, more of a MP buyer myself although I do plan to start soon when I return to NJ. Nevertheless I feel as if you are new to the MP in selling action your first package (for some more than one) you should run in with NO MU (I did this to 4 BPO events a few months back and it sold out in 40 mins to Shane) I say this because if you are trying to build a rep here, you want to start small and work your way in, I like to think we are a close group of investors in the MP and we know who sells out and who doesn't.

Players with solid stats and unblemished records in the poker community of course sell at a higher MU and maybe they should. Just because you are known in the poker community, doesn't mean you can sell at 1.3, you need proven stats to back it up and experience in the field with cashes in similar buy in sizes that puts you at expected value, just saying I'm +EV in this because it's so soft, doesn't cut it for me tbh.

Example: FSURounder sold his action to the WPT Regional at 1.35 because he was the defending champion of that event. He has experience in the field, buy in size and has taken in down before, hence warranting his 1.35MU he sold at.

2. When not to charge mark-up

NO MU should be charged for new MP sellers, players who hardly play live events (maybe just starting out or rec. players) and although not a lot of you might agree with me on this, but individual event packages under $500. It really boggles me when I see someone selling action to a $200-$300 event at 1.1, again just my opinion. I can see why they would do this, and I myself have bought shares of it before, however I don't always 100% agree with it.

IMO it's good to run you first package, or a few of them with NO MU. If building a reputation in the MP is something you want to do, this is an excellent way to build a rep, especially if the package has a lot of value and you do well in it. This certainly reflects on MP investors and you will find yourself with PMs from investors asking you to please reserve them X% of your next package.

3. Mark up abuse. I have seen many players mark up packages in a very abusive way, but are they doing this subconsciously?

This seems to be a plague lately (and maybe before I started buying shares) however like other posters have said ITT, if it sells it sells. If sellers are selling out their packages even when people are posting in their thread saying their MU is too high, then it's only other investors fault who are buying up the action, allowing this to happen.

There are times however where we can expect higher MU's, which is around WSOP time where the value in excellent in terms of MTTs, fields, prizepools, structure, etc. I have seen sellers charge as high as 1.45MU on a WSOP package and have it sell out.

Example:

I made a post about an hour ago in P0KERDUUDES MP thread for his FoxWoods package that did not sell out and was cancelled by him. I wasn't trolling his package, but at the start of his MP listing I saw he put together a FoxWood prelim packages @ 1.29 MU. I told him this was a bit high for me and that if he plans to lower his MU to please PM me (I was interested in a nice chunk) He explained to me that he has sold out packages at this rate before and that at this current moment the MU on his package was non-negotiable. I said OK best of luck, I saw a few other posters commenting as well about the MU on the package, he did sell a little bit of the package before canceling it all together FWIW.

Today he came in and cancelled the package since it did not sell. I posted in the thread and told him that I wasn't trolling him a couple weeks back when I posted about the MU and was sad to see this not sell. I told him that his package would have without a doubt sold out, if not be @ 1.29 for mostly a prelim package that didn't scream value IMO.

Not knocking his package whatsoever, simply stating that the MP speaks and that if we, the investors, disagree with your MU and how you handle it chances are it might not sell. This is the risk MP sellers take when charging a high MU on a package, sometimes it results in them not being able to play it and investors remembering what they charged and how it played out.

Very good post a ton of valid points there, I was one who would of bought Kevin's package at .30% only because he does have great stats , he is a regular in the mp and he always has a great line of communication, but after reading your post your right in many ways. I was in shock to see Kevin not pm any of us sayin hey "ill lower markup to get this sold " or pm any of us regular buyers some kind of offer. He stood by his .29% markup and never came off it, I would of liked to have some action from him but whatever...

Again valid points Turbo

Small routine investor and I got that package mentioned earlier ITT wrong...

I think players can earn their mark up not through only their ability but also the way they handle the people who invest in their packages. Some people post hourly updates, key hands, are prompt with numbers and provide full break downs. They are a pleasure to deal with and if they are close on ability with another player who doesn't run any updates, post hands but whose MU is a touch lower. I'd still happily take the former.

Sometimes on the big packages people post up I don't know why they don't consider tiers of MU i.e. certain fields are way tougher for example the Sunday 500 and the Million being the same in packages is maybe something people could alter.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert just something for fun and enjoyment.