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Old 07-17-2015, 08:17 PM   #151
fakelogic
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Re: Perceived scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

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Originally Posted by Lego05 View Post
He owed me a refund of $852 from this package: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...onaco-1525404/ but due to the different countries we were going to handle it on paypal, but he said "I can usually get money to paypal, but its dry right now. I can do international bank transfer for larger amounts" and said he would give me 2% of the package at the below link (which I think is the one you mean, though actually I don't see a Venetian $5K in it) at a discount for the $852. Now he owes me a refund from that one. And I wonder if anything happened with the aforementioned package.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?pli=1#gid=0
No that is a different WSOP package than the one I was a part of and at first glance I don't see any overlaps. I was a part of that previous one however and outside of an initial confusion on events/lack of updates during the event, I guess we can only ask for receipts or go by his summary.
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Old 07-17-2015, 08:43 PM   #152
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

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Originally Posted by mattidm View Post
Fwiw, on the whole thing being premeditated or not, I wrote Ben the day before the Venetian main if he wanted to come out to XS with us.

He replied: "dilemma.. I was thinking of playing the Venetian main tomorrow."

And next: "Yeah gonna have to pass as I'm gonna be selling action for it and don't want to let investors down by being hungover."

This was around 8-9pm. Seems like there was no malicious intent at that time.
May have been around that time Ben joined us at the ultimate tables at palazzo.
As he wrote in his reply that he played with some swedes.
He sat down with us two times during the week. He lost a few K each time. Seemed like he had quite alot of money playing 50-100 bets. (Risking up to 600 every hand for those of you that dont know the game)
Sad to here it wasnt his money and that he put himself in this position.
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Old 07-17-2015, 08:45 PM   #153
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

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not sure if this is what you meant, but I think he absolutely needs to be perma showered with 0% possibility of ever being reinstated in 2+2 marketplace or else the marketplace is a joke

the rest of poker can decide whether or not to ever deal w him again (if they hate money)
+1, and quite obviously in my mind

Repentant or not, this is not a person that should be allowed to post packages in the marketplace
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Old 07-17-2015, 11:00 PM   #154
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

selling 500% of myself in the stars wcoop 50k, pm to confirm
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Old 07-17-2015, 11:06 PM   #155
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

In before kidcardiff ships milly #grimftw #padjes
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Old 07-18-2015, 01:10 AM   #156
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

I don't think whether he should be allowed to sell on the MP here or not really matters. Even if he was allowed, any thread he started wouldn't last more than an hour before being inundated with references to this.

I don't mean to pile on a guy completely unrelated to this, but I did find it interesting that a lot of people were immediately calling for Ben to be removed from TPE (Rightly), but I haven't heard anyone have a problem with Dave Emmons still creating RIO videos, despite also degening off his backers money (Start here + new few posts).
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Old 07-18-2015, 01:36 AM   #157
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

Should be some kind of standard where grimmers have to pay back double in these instances to stand a chance of being accepted back into the community. Not necessarily straight away, but say the first 100% asap and the next 100% within 6 months, or whenever they get their next score.
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Old 07-18-2015, 05:55 AM   #158
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

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Old 07-18-2015, 08:53 AM   #159
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

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Originally Posted by Transcendence View Post
Very sad to read this. Starting to lose faith in the game I love..
that's dumb. maybe put less stock in other people and focus more on your own game for maximum life EV

edit: i just wanna add some words for those who wanna make excuses for this guy- the only "admirable" (lol, air quotes) thing to do if/when you donk off all your poker buyins in the pits, is let your backer(s) know about the mistake you made and then do what you can to make it right. stealing more money from your closest friends is clearly the nut lo in terms of the optimal line from that point on, and shows that this guy has basically zero redeemable character inside of him.

Last edited by +rep_lol; 07-18-2015 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 07-18-2015, 09:36 AM   #160
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

What the hell? Is this guy gonna continue to be a TPE Coach? Im a big fan of Bigdogpckt5s and I hope he does the right thing here and let this guy go.
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Old 07-18-2015, 09:59 AM   #161
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

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Originally Posted by DarkMattersMan View Post
What the hell? Is this guy gonna continue to be a TPE Coach? Im a big fan of Bigdogpckt5s and I hope he does the right thing here and let this guy go.
Lol
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Old 07-18-2015, 11:01 AM   #162
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

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Originally Posted by random_chu View Post
selling 500% of myself in the stars wcoop 50k, pm to confirm
you'd have the same roi regardless of if you sold 500% or 50%
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Old 07-18-2015, 12:00 PM   #163
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

My god ... For ****'s sake what the hell is wrong with some people.
This type of **** is exactly why a part of me hates poker and the poker world. Just seems to be full with some of the most selfish people on the planet.

This scam is just so ****ing tilting. Instead of asking your "close friends " for a 2k loan, you instead sold them 20% of an MTT at markup when you were clearly going to 100% punt LOL.
Did basic logic escape you? Didnt you think that maybe you could have just skipped the event to begin with and used whatever leftover money to refund?
It s very common for people to run out of cash in vegas. That happened to me and instead of scamming or overselling, i loaned from my friend and paid him when i got back home... It s that simple.
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Old 07-18-2015, 12:13 PM   #164
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

And please , to anyone out there who is a poker pro or wants to become one.. Please stick to goddamn poker and stop being a degenerate.
If you re a proven winner in Poker then do that. Dont go punting money on -Ev games. You don't see a pro basketball player suddenly end his NBA career and switch to the MLB because they also throw balls there.

This whole stance of " man it s okay to lose a couple of K at casino games " is so ****ing annoying because NO, it s not. Stop ****ing punting money away on **** you know you re -ev at. In this instance im not sure what Ben lost money at but i doubt he makes coaching videos online about it and maintains a high winrate at it.

I dont think im lucky ive only lost like 200$ lifetime at casino games. I just used basic common sense to realize " hey , i dont know **** about blackjack.. So im gonna stop even though im wasted ".
Respect yourself and your proffession and stop donating your money to casinos.

Ok rant over.
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Old 07-18-2015, 12:30 PM   #165
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

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Originally Posted by Zebest7r View Post
And please , to anyone out there who is a poker pro or wants to become one.. Please stick to goddamn poker and stop being a degenerate.
If you re a proven winner in Poker then do that. Dont go punting money on -Ev games. You don't see a pro basketball player suddenly end his NBA career and switch to the MLB because they also throw balls there.

This whole stance of " man it s okay to lose a couple of K at casino games " is so ****ing annoying because NO, it s not. Stop ****ing punting money away on **** you know you re -ev at. In this instance im not sure what Ben lost money at but i doubt he makes coaching videos online about it and maintains a high winrate at it.

I dont think im lucky ive only lost like 200$ lifetime at casino games. I just used basic common sense to realize " hey , i dont know **** about blackjack.. So im gonna stop even though im wasted ".
Respect yourself and your proffession and stop donating your money to casinos.

Ok rant over.
+1000000 to both of your posts, it always baffles me how people whose living is based on finding +EV gambles voluntarily go take -EV gambles
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Old 07-18-2015, 12:51 PM   #166
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

lol there is a lot of things which are -ev but + life ev. drinking some free beers from the casino, high fiving eisenhower and other swedish guys that you have a lot of common ground with is perfectly fine.

paying 1000% mark up on bottles of vodka in clubs or 100$ for 15 minute lap dances in the rhino (+ the fkn compulsory $40 drink) ((reportedly) is hardly the wisest choice ever.

it seems like he grinded really hard all summer, by the end he was burned out and busted the main event and wanted to have some fun. most fun things in vegas are expensive!

not condoning any of the stealing or scummy things that went on, but nobody should tell others that they should or shouldn't play blackjack, just like id never tell you not to smoke weed or whatever else.
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Old 07-18-2015, 12:58 PM   #167
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

Firing larger bets when busto as **** in legit the worst odds in the pit is pretty lol
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Old 07-18-2015, 01:03 PM   #168
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

why do you think he is busto as whatever.

very likely was just cash busto in vegas. very much doubt he is actually busto
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Old 07-18-2015, 01:03 PM   #169
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

I'd argue that lap dances and weed are more in the category of standard consumable goods than just doing what you do for a living (gambling) but in a -EV setting. However, your point is well taken - everyone's utility function is different, so what may seem pointless to me can seem fun for others, and vice versa

This is all pretty tangential to the original point anyway as nobody is really trying to call him out for playing table games

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Originally Posted by OurSurveySays View Post
why do you think he is busto as whatever.

very likely was just cash busto in vegas. very much doubt he is actually busto


This makes what he did much, much worse, you realize - if you have $$$ behind, then it's very easy to just raise a loan for the buyin or skip it and pay back investors in a week or whatever when you get home. Resorting to the lowest type of scummery in this spot is far more reprehensible than doing it out of sheer busto desperation (which would also be quite bad, but at least would have some sort of excuse behind it)
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Old 07-18-2015, 01:14 PM   #170
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

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Originally Posted by bazooka87 View Post
And these people shouldn't sell action, it's not ****ing rocket science.
You missed the point of my post. It is not "these" ppl that can fall down the rabbit hole, it's everybody (you too). I'm fairly convinced that Ben is in the top 5%+ in terms of integrity and self-discipline.
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Old 07-18-2015, 01:18 PM   #171
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

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Originally Posted by fakelogic View Post
The way I see it, the problem with defending or praising Ben on any level in the grand scheme of things is that even if he isn't an official scammer for life, someone else who actually is and chooses to commit the same crime could take advantage of that leniency/forgiveness.

So yes, most rational people would agree in a vacuum Ben might not be true scum and could be given a second chance (by people who have a reason to). But that doesn't
really need to be emphasized (if said at all) given the context of this industry/issue. It just weakens overall security adopting that mentality in any regularity. This is and correctly should be a one and done thing by default.
I disagree. I think guys who scam but come clean right away and make restitution are a different (and very tiny) class of people than the scammers who don't, and they should at least get recognition for being a decent human in the end and not taking the far easier and common paths of running away/ignoring the situation of lying/scamming more to get themselves out of the hole.
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Old 07-18-2015, 01:19 PM   #172
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

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Originally Posted by bparis View Post
I'd argue that lap dances and weed are more in the category of standard consumable goods than just doing what you do for a living (gambling) but in a -EV setting. However, your point is well taken - everyone's utility function is different, so what may seem pointless to me can seem fun for others, and vice versa

This is all pretty tangential to the original point anyway as nobody is really trying to call him out for playing table games





This makes what he did much, much worse, you realize - if you have $$$ behind, then it's very easy to just raise a loan for the buyin or skip it and pay back investors in a week or whatever when you get home. Resorting to the lowest type of scummery in this spot is far more reprehensible than doing it out of sheer busto desperation (which would also be quite bad, but at least would have some sort of excuse behind it)

yes i agree. i know he's very very good friends with amadi and sergio and it really is incredibly sad that he chose to steal from them.

if anything this thread has taught me that we really shouldn't trust anybody. I'm pretty sure ben and amadi were as close to real life good friends as there is in poker. its shown me that I've made some naive decisions this summer (giving people a chance to steal from me that i expected to be close to 0% chance.
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Old 07-18-2015, 01:30 PM   #173
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

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Originally Posted by mixgameADDict View Post
I disagree. I think guys who scam but come clean right away and make restitution are a different (and very tiny) class of people than the scammers who don't, and they should at least get recognition for being a decent human in the end and not taking the far easier and common paths of running away/ignoring the situation of lying/scamming more to get themselves out of the hole.
I'm not disagreeing with your categorization of this type of character--I'm disagreeing with your presentation/timing/determination of it. It's only been days after it happened and despite his post on here, it's still not a clear cut, black and white explanation where Ben was completely forthright, much less completely logical.

How can you so quickly and definitively say he wasn't running away when only a day before this thread started he claimed to me he was leaving Vegas so he couldn't meet to pay me, when in fact he was going to be there at least 24 hours more and somehow did have the cash to pay me? Yes, after all this he arranged to get me the money, but if you think just that act suddenly makes it crystal clear that he's 100% reformed, then I would say you are a far greater optimist than I am.

Simply put, I was a part of this and even I still don't have all the facts to feel closure or whatever. So to expect people to give Ben any praise or recognition for his actions at this point isn't just naive, it's irresponsible. I, and most likely others, still want to make sure we weren't screwed even more than has been currently discovered.

Last edited by fakelogic; 07-18-2015 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 07-18-2015, 01:30 PM   #174
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

Re: the psychology of fraud and why normal/decent/moral people commit it ...

http://www.npr.org/2012/05/01/151764...-do-bad-things
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Old 07-18-2015, 01:32 PM   #175
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Re: Scam by Ben Warrington/KidCardiff6

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Originally Posted by OurSurveySays View Post
lol there is a lot of things which are -ev but + life ev. drinking some free beers from the casino, high fiving eisenhower and other swedish guys that you have a lot of common ground with is perfectly fine.

paying 1000% mark up on bottles of vodka in clubs or 100$ for 15 minute lap dances in the rhino (+ the fkn compulsory $40 drink) ((reportedly) is hardly the wisest choice ever.

it seems like he grinded really hard all summer, by the end he was burned out and busted the main event and wanted to have some fun. most fun things in vegas are expensive!

not condoning any of the stealing or scummy things that went on, but nobody should tell others that they should or shouldn't play blackjack, just like id never tell you not to smoke weed or whatever else.

As much as i am anti-gambling , i understand that it could be enjoyable and life +ev, however id guarantee you that i could show you 36362626 better ways to spend that same money.

The big difference here is that some people gamble for fun, which im okay with , while others are doing it in pursuit of profit which is insanely stupid.
Whatever Ben was doing in this case was clearly not for fun, he was trying to win back money to afford the 5k which is just so ****ing stupid. It led him to dig a deeper hole and then clearly go against his own morales and screw people and his close friends over. That s exactly why im anti gambling because not only does it ruin lives but it turns people into something they re not.

Ive read your blog pads and i saw you had some "gamboling" fun a few times. Personally i would never do that but you seemed to enjoy it so obviously to each their own. But it was clear you did it in the sole purpose of enjoyment and clearly with money you re somewhat okay with losing.. Not when you re cash busto and trying to run up funds for other MTTs.

Id honestly love to start some sort of blog to persuade people away from casino games and help them realize there s much better ways to spend time and money. Not to say i never gamble, i did some drunk bowling and bet 50$ a game or so and that was infinite times better than sitting down on a table and slowly losing money to the casino, for me of course.
There s never success stories from casino games, they always ruin lives .
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