ya it's like buying action in a super -ev player who happened to play perfectly getting in aa against kk first hand and losing

Should be a life ban from the marketplace IMO. It is a privilege not a right.

6+ months lol come on

The discussion should be about how many "Ben Warrington is a scammer and a thief" websites get put up, not whether he should ever be let back into the MP

it's more like having money stolen directly from your pocket by someone you have trusted for years, when they have the means to not have to do that sitting back home (according to pads anyway) - pretty large diff between simply being a bad player and having the incentive structure line up so that your literal only possible outcome is not cashing

I'm not sure if a bunch of you guys are close friends with him or something but it really feels like people are not reacting nearly strongly enough to this

Let's consider exactly what this man did -

[x] stole money from long time backer
[x] stole money from marketplace
[x] stole money from close friends and swaps
[ ] desperate (had means back home)
[x] tried to claim second bullet the next day, since profiting 50% of the buyin w no variance wasn't enough for him

"xxxx is a scammer and a thief" websites have certainly been made over less than this

Let's also consider how much of a massive erosion of trust this is, this man built up trust in the community for 5+ years to run this scam, very likely not for the first time. If his punishment is a slap on the wrist and having to pay back the money (PLUS markup! oooh!) then wtf is the disincentive for people to not exploit the overselling loophole? Poker players are intelligent people and attempt to maximize their value according to incentives - if some sort of example is not made here, it sends a really bad message to the rest of the marketplace and community

ya every single aspect of this points to him being a narcissistic, pathological liar and scumbag. it's really pathetic to see some of these posts where people make excuses for his behavior like he's an upstanding guy or a sick desperate dude with a gambling problem, despite every indication otherwise. even worse is the people who are all "well i'd guess that a good % of you guys itt would do the same thing, lol mtters, you can never say never"

hey bro

i wasn't trying to stick up for him or anything, i think its one of the sickest/scummiest things I've ever seen in the community despite the amount being pretty small in comparison to some scams because i understand the relationship he has with some of the people who scammed him.

i was just saying to the people who say he was lying about playing well that its true his intentions were very likely not to play well but he could have played standard, i agree it doesn't really matter though.

again not trying to stick up for him at all and reiterate its terrible, terrible act.

the marketplace on this forum really is an amazing thing and a true privilege for everybody to be able to have. it's one of a kind, nowhere else does such a big collection of people get together to have open negotiations about buying and selling equity in poker games, and every one of us has met some great people across the world through the marketplace that we likely would not have had the opportunity to meet otherwise. a good number of us have made a ****load of money from it. everybody who uses the marketplace has a responsibility to protect it in the sense that integrity should be expected/demanded, and known scammers should be excluded and forced to suffer irreparable damage to their reputations if they don't pay back all the money they steal. without a legit marketplace to do business, everybody suffers.

sry i should prob quote directly when speaking, i only meant specifically pads example that he 'could have played well', which as he has said doesn't really matter (just like the example i gave)

This and i also believe people should press charges do whatever when ever they can when stuff like this happens.

There is no disincentive to scam for a lot of people when all that happens when they get caught is 'oh well got caught better pay it back then, its ok though because no one is going to give me grief at the tables ' F them these people bring down the rep of poker. Something which i care about if not everybody.

The easier time scumbags have in poker the more of them you will get.

Bryan wins.

lol at 6months+ ban from the mp. Ban for life obv and check all his stakes from the past.

Excellent post and totally agree about the MP description

How are we on page 3 still discussing MP privileges? He scammed and there's no question about it.

So ****ing revoke that ****..

Two hands face up lfg

So the most important question in this thread hasnt been discussed yet. If u see all 6 players cards. What % does the casino have at ultimate?

This dude showed he was a liar at the beginning of the series.

I smashed him in the heads up than he tried to **** talk me on Twitter like I'm a fish.

When he found out I saw his tweet he tried to come up to me at the Rio and apologize calling himself a sore loser.

This is why people should be playing off their own action

what did he say?

Called me an amateur who was clueless.

Though our whole match except the last two hands were me outclassing him.

Than he came up to me and said he was upset he lost and had been a sore loser and he was sorry but it clearly shows he can't handle losing very well and also lied about our match lol

paging the ultimate grinder KKremate


lol at ever being able to sell in the MP again. basically agree with the posts bparis and mjw have made, pretty spot on IMO

I have no idea on the ultimate numbers..would say sharing cards and playing optimal might be close to even, where are the math wizards?
PS: swedish kids take all the seats on pallazo

Dude, if he has the brains to get staked as much as he has and do the other stuff he's done in poker he has the brains to punt a tournament he sold >100% of his action in.

If he punts, maybe he gets away free and clear, maybe he gets caught and pays back what he got caught stealing. If he plays well and cashes he owes more money than he did when he couldn't buy in, he sold the extra action to get out of paying back money he donked off in other games, why would he do that just to go into more debt?

Did you ever read a scam-thread, and mistakenly have thought of an other scammer's thread? I just checked this, and I did... Sorry folks, IÄll drink less the next time.

Will update this thread when the I see the scammer shipping the warm-up and milly, like padjes.

Before you guys are discussing consequences of Bens behavior, why don't ask him what he think is fair or suitable for this situation.

He could for example donate some money to a charity to do something good and clear up his mistake. He could do something else good for the community and so on.

I think everybody who is saying now how bad all this stuff is, is right, but you guys should not forget the we are all humans, and humans do bad irrational stuff. People only need a bad time in their life and the opportunity to do such a thing. Then a ton of people fall down and forget their own rules ethic .....

Especially the Poker Business is trust orientated and causing that everybody should know what a stakee already did in the past.

I would ask Ben what he think is a fair judgement of his behavior, he is hopefully ashamed enough to scam friends colleagues and Stakers.

From his statement and willing to do good to clean this messed up spot people can decide on their own if they are willing to trust him again and not.
If he is selling again in the MP and tells people explicit of his past decisions and how he make it good again he should be able to sell again.

And guys, get off your high horse, you never did something wrong in your life?

I'm not trying to protect Ben or whatever, i don't even know him

JFC, how many more of these scandals need to happen before we do something about it?

I posted an idea in the Your ideas are worthless... thread of the business section of 2+2 but it didnt really get any traction.

This scenario is another one that could easily have been prevented.

You could have an option on the site where the user types in the percentages bought/swapped for a specific tourney, and that info could be made public to the investors, and the site would automatically verify that the user doesnt oversell for a specific tournament.

Also, site would be a good place to upload receipts and keep easily accessible records of staking history.

palinca this is a fantastic idea, I was discussing something similar the other day. The closest I've found is dan druff's "pokerfraudalert" which seems to be more about sketchy websites than sketchy action sales. If you have any interest in attempting to make that site come to fruition PM me, I would be willing to invest in it or do some work on it.

I was going to type a long-winded response to schmette's post but I've already said my piece in the rest of the thread, so I'll just say I strongly disagree with much of it, especially the part about MP ever letting him back in - the rest of poker can decide to do business w him again if they want to, but 2+2 has a responsibility to protect its members and a lifetime ban is absolutely in order here

edit: buying that domain name now, anyone interested in making this happen can get in touch w me. Think it would be an amazing resource for the community and could eliminate these constant black marks that poker's reputation is getting when people do things like this

sounds cool