Top 5% based on what info though? You said you don't know him and I'm guessing most of your opinion is formed by his 2p2 presence. Yet this pretty egregious act gives you no sense of hesitation or doubt? As a reminder, he did to people he's friendly with IRL, not to mention the inexplicable claim that he has the money to cover it. All forgiven just because of one post where he says he will pay back? Do you even know if he paid everyone back yet? Do you know he didn't screw us over more than he was outed to?

Sorry to sound heated, but this is just an opinion formed with such a lack of information that I can't help but feel frustrated as a person who was actually affected by it.

Can I be super very good friends with everybody too please?

Agree very much w fakelogic here, saying the guy is top 5% in terms of trustworthiness after he stole money from some of his closest friends (let alone the marketplace) seems extremely suspect

I'm sure somebody else could show me 333399394949 ways, and somebody else 201029399.

I'm sure somebody could show somebody 202020000202 better ways to spend a saturday than playing golf to somebody (in their opinion)

I'm sure my girlfriend could show me 30030303030 better ways to spend tomorrow than watching a pre season friendly of newcastle united vs sacramento, but thats what i like and what ill be doing.

the big problem with gambling is that people don't do it in moderation but thats usually the same as any vice, whether it be smoking weed, eating ****ty food, drinking alcohol or whatever else.

by the way this all comes from somebody who promised not to bet again i was gambling and trying to chase losses which wasn't fun at all. when i was gambling with groups of friends, getting drunk, high fiving etc that was v, v fun.

I really don't get why this has to be debated...it s 100% wrong on every level. Of course it is not the first and not the last time for someone who gets caught with a lie/scum and confesses only after that.

It is like a bad player's tendency to call down with top pair on all streets whatever the board reads. He will do that most of the time until realizing it s stupid.
In relation with this, a degen probably doesn't realize he is one unless when it's too late.

lol at saying he came clean "right away" . He got caught and admited to it when it was fairly obv there is no getting away with it. If anything it suggest that he is not stupid.
The guy clearly scammed his investors/friends and could have easily gotten away with it if he wasnt too greedy, claiming a second bullet.

lol at suggesting he keeps his MP approval. Thats just wrong.

Also him claiming itt that he has played that tournament the same as if he had 100% of himeself was hilarious.

P.S. imo seems like a major part of this story is missing as it makes little to no sense

LOL

How is this even a discussion about gambling? I'm sure there are lots of people who love to gamble and have done completely irrational/degenerate things and are completely trustworthy and would never steal a dime. Much the same as I'm sure there are people who have never gambled who are complete scumbags and will steal at any opportunity.

We don't even know that the gambling alibi is hard facts. It's only the story that has been presented.

The issue should be more about scumbaggery/character than anything. If he is a gambler, that shouldn't be the thing we are focusing on because it is making unfair categorisations on people imo. I have close friends who I would trust with any amount of money who are ridic degens. The difference is that they are good people with a high moral code.

Logic when wasted? Doubt you've ever been truly wasted dude

I think you're very wrong about this. Ben DID take the far easier road of scamming more to get out of the hole.

At no point did he come clean until it was obvious that he got caught.

You put way too much value on his promise to make it right. He's a gambling addict, he'll do whatever improves his chances to get his next fix and that just happens to be (in his mind) to repay the people he screwed over.

I wouldn't take the mindset of not trusting almost anyone at all because of this even though I see your point. Some very good friends I would do business with on a trust basis (giving them the 'opportunity' to scam me), just like they would do with me as overall the benefits outweigh the risk x disadvantage. Can't say the chance is literally 0.00% they ever do anything to wrong me but if you do everything like that I don't think it works out well either. Buying action online for example is arguably less risky than live since things are better tracked etc but the chance someone otherwise very reputable randomly doesn't pay isn't 0.. Making informed decisions basically.

As far as gambling, this is starting to get on a tangent but in my opinion there are for sure times where it is perfectly acceptable by choice for a poker player (or non-poker player) to play as a form of entertainment where they are giving up EV they can afford to lose/risking money they can afford to lose.. I personally don't ever play table games but have some friends who sometimes do, and it's similar to smart people who understand they are -ev at casino games (or even poker! -if a smart person who can afford it plays some poker, they often are aware they are not 'profitable players' or '+ev') but play sometimes anyway for fun because the EV is essentially a cost of entertainment. It's like playing arcade games (which are almost all rigged), buying lotto scratchies etc. For a lot of people paying a small fee (rake on Stars for example) to do a flip is perfectly reasonable. Doing stuff like chasing losses etc on table games is another story.

Also not everyone can control themselves. Personally I think my poker career/understanding of EV helps me avoid play these games as bparis suggested but similarly if I were to play a few hands of blackjack or whatever table game I think (not from experience) that it would also make it much 'easier' for me to not get addicted/stuck in a cycle of playing a tonne etc.

Say you are -3% at BJ and play a 20 $50 hands losing $30 of EV. If you are in the right spot that EV could be worth the entertainment/justified. (Can obviously replace numbers since this is an example)

Actually a better and maybe more common example might be just putting some money on sports. I mean of course there are some people who can find +EV spots but let's be real, most poker players (or non-poker players) putting a little money on a game for a sweat etc are likely making a "-ev" bet. And I think it's perfectly fine for the fun/sweat etc in most cases.

Yeah, well said David. I am in same category as you regarding gambling (which i often joke makes me a terrible asian - We meant to gambool )

But I really think the gambling discussion is being overdone here. I would argue that I have friends that could possibly fall into category of "can't control themselves - especially when drinking"... I would trust these people with my last dollar.

I'm not saying there isn't a correlation here, I'm just saying it's very hard at times to spot the bad apple irrespective of whether they gamble or not. So having this discussion based around "gamblers", and I think in a lot of ways subconsciously implanting the idea that if someone gambles, then they are a higher risk, is not necessarily true.

At it's core, it has everything to do with people's character and moral code, which unfortunately a lot of the time is not really quantifiable.

Just put 5 on red please

who was the goat high 5er iyo?

If the top 5%+ can do this I really fear what the other 95% would do

There's a sucker born every minute

Well, he hasn't paid me anything yet. I wasn't involved in this Venetian $5K, but I haven't gotten a refund yet from the other package.

Lol what a stupid comment. No, you thought he was in the top 5% of integrity and his actions just proved you wrong. You have to be really ****ing stupid or arrogant to still believe that he is in the top 5% of integrity.

Not really. I've done a lot of business both inside and outside of the poker world and have never been scammed as far as I know.

1. No loans w/o collateral
2. General philosophy of trust but verify
3. I have a nearly foolproof BS detector

My top 5% comment was probably fired off a bit earlier than it should have been but based on the info we had/have, I'm fairly confident that Ben will make everyone whole quickly.

I made an aggressive read based on his post ITT and was mainly just trying to highlight how rare it is for someone in his situation to take immediate responsibility. The fact that Fakelogic was more or less instapaid was a big part of my read. If Ben fails to make other investors whole, then I will change my opinion. But I'm not expecting to ...

Pm link to bs detector plz

Read more carefully. I had no idea Ben existed prior to this thread. My statements are based on the accepted facts and his statement ITT.

I may be arrogant but I'm def not stupid. (IQ test for rolls?)

Send some BS my way and I'll detect it for you for $100.

In seriousness, in life I make character reads all the time and do things most ppl would consider crazy and have never been cheated.

For example, prior to leaving my house in vegas on Wednesday, I gave my handyman low-middle 4 figs in cash and my house key so he could replace my windows and do roof repairs while I was gone, telling him I wouldn't be back in vegas til mid August.

The funny thing is that I'd be willing to bet that Ben makes everyone whole, but have no reason to trust anyone ITT wouldn't either roll me or bet w inside info w 1 exception so I probably won't get action.

I spoke to Ben shortly after the incident and he apologized and confirmed that he will refund the 5% swap + my 2nd bullet. I've had nothing but positive interactions with him for 5+ years, so i was obviously disappointed to hear this happen. He must have been in a really bad place. I don't think hes a bad person.

There's a lot of talk itt about punishments but there is no real way to govern that in the poker world imo. A marketplace ban is a slap on the wrist. The guilt/pain hes feeling by screwing his friends over is probably far worse than not being able to sell to live mtts anymore.

for sociopaths, that "shame" is basically a no punishment

I don't know what Ben is but a system that doesn't punish those who do not care seems flawed