Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > Tournament Poker > MTT Community

Notices

MTT Community MTT sweat and official threads as well as various contests and events

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-21-2010, 08:59 PM   #1
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ARFARFARF
Posts: 2,592
PSA: Weird new regulations Canada/US border >10K cash

Hey, I was bitching about this on twitter and a couple people wanted to know the story so here it is. I would recommend not bringing cash across the border if you can avoid it until we figure out wtf is going on with this. This is the relevant section copy/pasted from my blog. I'm flying to Australia from Toronto connecting in LA.

The only possible issue was that due to a set of strange circumstances from last year I had more than 10K in AUD cash on me. Normally I avoid traveling with cash whenever possible (and carrying cash on my person at all for that matter) and just wire money ahead, but getting raped on exchanging the money into CAD or USD and then back into AUD is stupid when I can just carry the cash at no cost. For those of you who have never carried large amounts of cash across the border the whole thing is pretty easy. You tick the box to declare it on your customs card. They take you to secondary inspection and ask you some questions which you answer truthfully and you fill out some extra paperwork for the money. Maybe if you're unlucky they search your bags. The whole thing should never really take more than an extra 30 minutes worst case scenario.

So I stroll into US customs 90 minutes before my flight knowing even with all the silly new US flight regulations I have heaps of time. The first sign of something weird is when the customs agent sees I've ticked yes to the currency question, she asks if I've already declared it with Canadian customs. I'm confused by the question and answer that I have not since I'm starting my trip here. I proceed to the secondary inspection room and there are way more people than I've ever seen in there. I hand them my card then have to sit for 5 minutes before they call my name. I roll my bags up to the desk with a male agent this time and again the first thing they ask is if I have declared my money with Canadian customs already? Again confused, I reply that I have not. He informs me that I was supposed to file the paperwork with them before I got to US customs. I ask how recently this change in procedure was implemented. He informs me that it's always been that way.

It has not always been that way. It's *possible* that it was always technically supposed to have been enforced that way, but it certainly never has been in the past. After a couple more questions he passes me the standard US currency form and says he's going to call Canadian customs and explain the situation, try to get someone to come up from there. He informs me further that I will have to fill out the paperwork again in LA saying I'm taking the money out of the country this time. The absurdity of this rule is somewhat mind-blowing. He says I will have to find US customs in LA and fill out the paper work. First of all, I have no idea how to find US customs in LA. Would they even let me back there since I'm already legally in their ****ing country? I'm certain that if I ask someone this in LA they will look at me like I'm retarded. Obviously the same thing applies to finding Canadian customs in Toronto like I was "supposed to". And what happens when driving across the border? Is this a flying-only regulation? It really doesn't make sense, maybe US and Canadian customs could just try communicating the information with each other instead?

I fill out the paperwork and he is able to get a Canadian agent to come with their paperwork. He informs me that technically Canadian customs is allowed to seize the money since I came to US customs first but that there shouldn't be a problem. He was actually very friendly the whole time and he and the agent next to him made a bunch of remarks about how ridiculous so many of the policies they have to follow are, but as they are merely "peons" they just follow the rules. The funniest part was when converting the AUD into USD he got a number greater than the number in AUD. Obviously he immediately recognized this could not be right, but after double checking regulations he just left it that way saying it's obviously wrong but that's how he was told to do it and what does he care really. It's fairly likely this was still his mistake actually but either way I got a good laugh out of it.

Two Canadian customs agents arrive, I fill out their paperwork and they want to see/count the money for some reason. They leave, the US guy does the quickest, least thorough "search of my bags" in history and waves me along finally. This whole procedure took quite a while however and I am in big time trouble and there is a decent chance I may miss my flight.... I finally get through security with no hiccups and start running for my gate. I stop running about 5 seconds later when I see the secondary search point, now standard for any flight to the US since the events over the holidays, and the lengthy queue waiting there. I am so ****ed. My flight is scheduled to takeoff in less than 15 minutes so boarding may be almost over already, and it will take at least that long to get through this line. I'm just praying my flight is delayed at this point, though this seems a very reasonable hope knowing Air Canada.

Salvation: A lady with a walkie-talkie calls my name. I raise my hand and go to her and now I am in the front of the queue. Now they know I am here and won't leave without me. That was too close. In their thorough search at the security checkpoint they obviously find my cash (and would have even if I'd tried to hide it so don't bother). I tell them I've declared it. They ask for proof and I tell them that's not how it works, I don't have any. Your job is security for the flight not customs I already went through those and that's why I'm late you idiot (obviously I only actually said the that's why I'm late part). Though I can't blame them for wanting to be sure. Now I stand there another 5 minutes at least as someone runs to customs to double check on me. Finally the runner comes back and confirms it's all good.

Cliffs: Weird new regulation apparently u have to declare currency in Canada first AND then US customs. Don't be an idiot and not declare it because that's stupid anyways and they will find it in the 2ndary search they do at the gate now.
TheNewf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2010, 09:14 PM   #2
veteran
 
rdrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: @achen88 on Twitter
Posts: 3,197
Re: PSA: Weird new regulations Canada/US border >10K cash

This happened to me on the way to Vegas in May

edit: missed my flight, missed the giant 1k

Last edited by rdrr; 01-21-2010 at 09:22 PM. Reason: beat
rdrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2010, 09:20 PM   #3
Bonafide 9
 
timex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,679
Re: PSA: Weird new regulations Canada/US border >10K cash

Its definitely not *that* new of a law, I got stopped in Canada in August and the informed me I should be declaring both ways and that to their knowledge that had been the rule for a while.

Funny story about that... it was the ultimate good cop bad cop. The one security guy at our gate was asking me why I have all this money, telling me how strict their rules are, how it could get confiscated while the other guy is talking and laughing with my friend and I overhear them say something about poker. After things get sorted out with the "bad cop" the good cop asked if I do this professionally, I said ya, he asked for my screen name. I said timex and Mike McDonald on FTP, he said "oh cool, I've seen you play a bunch of times, I rail all the good Canadian players"
timex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2010, 10:04 PM   #4
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Henderson, Nevada
Posts: 2,764
Re: PSA: Weird new regulations Canada/US border >10K cash

I'm taking a rowboat the next time I travel over a body of water, and driving everywhere domestically.
MaverickUSC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2010, 10:10 PM   #5
old hand
 
kerze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: whootyland
Posts: 1,682
Re: PSA: Weird new regulations Canada/US border >10K cash

This regulation has been around for a while - I believe since 2000 when FINTRAC was introduced.

http://www.cbsa.gc.ca./publications/...f5052-eng.html

Quote:
If you are entering or leaving Canada and are carrying $10,000 or more, or its equivalent in a foreign currency including any combination of coins, domestic or foreign bank notes, and securities, such as travellers cheques, stocks and bonds, you have to complete Form E677, Cross-Border Currency or Monetary Instruments Report - Individual. If the currency or monetary instruments that you are reporting are not your own, you will be required to complete Form E667, Cross-Border Currency or Monetary Instruments Report - General. You must complete the reporting form, sign it, and hand it to a border services officer at the nearest CBSA office that is open at the time you are travelling.
Quote:
Currency and monetary instruments of a value equal to or greater than $10,000, or its equivalent in a foreign currency which are not reported, may be subject to seizure and the assessment of penalties or forfeiture. Penalties range from $250 to $5,000
kerze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2010, 10:30 PM   #6
Pooh-Bah
 
kk405's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: TriBeca, NYC
Posts: 5,321
Re: PSA: Weird new regulations Canada/US border >10K cash

This has always been the law, but never ever advertised in the 'developed' countries. You always see a prominent sign at almost any airport in 'developing' countries, that if you are exiting the country with more than 10K, you should declare it, as well as having the same sign and printed in custom forms entering such countries...

but in developed countries, this has always been the law as well, but never advertised, and this includes US as well. If you are LEAVING US soil on an international flight, you MUST declare if you are taking out more that $10,000...however, there is almost no sign stating such anywhere in any airport that I know of. You must ask for them form, and fill out, but who is supposed to know all such laws?
kk405 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2010, 10:40 PM   #7
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
JP OSU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 8,852
Re: PSA: Weird new regulations Canada/US border >10K cash

Ya, I almost got screwed on this going to London in 08... Really thought they were gonna take my money and kick me out. I've just tried to stay away from carrying money out of the country since then...
JP OSU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2010, 10:48 PM   #8
veteran
 
tonymark01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: wug
Posts: 3,130
Re: PSA: Weird new regulations Canada/US border >10K cash

so i've driven across the u.s.-canadian border many times to play poker in windsor, and i don't quite understand what this post is saying. when crossing to canada, one talks to canadian border agents, and informs them of any declarations there, and when crossing to the u.s., one speaks and declares to the american border agents. this is saying that before going to canada one must declare currency to the u.s. customs and vice versa? how would one do that given that setup?
tonymark01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2010, 11:09 PM   #9
Pooh-Bah
 
OnlyCardINeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Doin what I gotta do
Posts: 4,546
Re: PSA: Weird new regulations Canada/US border >10K cash

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymark01 View Post
so i've driven across the u.s.-canadian border many times to play poker in windsor, and i don't quite understand what this post is saying. when crossing to canada, one talks to canadian border agents, and informs them of any declarations there, and when crossing to the u.s., one speaks and declares to the american border agents. this is saying that before going to canada one must declare currency to the u.s. customs and vice versa? how would one do that given that setup?
Not the same for driving across. Driving you only deal with the agent on duty and cannot go to Canadian or US customs before crossing. There is a sign posted up on the booths (at least in BC) that says "if carrying greater than $10,000 in currency across the border you must declare it"

Also, taking the train, you declare when you are going to board the train at customs and you declare again when border guards do their walk through at the crossing.
OnlyCardINeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2010, 11:18 PM   #10
Pooh-Bah
 
boomshakalaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,462
Re: PSA: Weird new regulations Canada/US border >10K cash

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymark01 View Post
so i've driven across the u.s.-canadian border many times to play poker in windsor, and i don't quite understand what this post is saying. when crossing to canada, one talks to canadian border agents, and informs them of any declarations there, and when crossing to the u.s., one speaks and declares to the american border agents. this is saying that before going to canada one must declare currency to the u.s. customs and vice versa? how would one do that given that setup?
yes this is correct. There is normally some sort of place to pull in. I guess the average person isnt carrying 10k in cash, so the boarder crossings arent exactly built to make this easy. I was with a friend going to windsor backin 07 I think it was, and he ran into the same problem with >10k in cash. The canadian customs officers were cool though.. they simply informed us of what we should have done, and explained that they are technically supposed to turn us back to the US border where the money could be seized, then let us through.
boomshakalaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2010, 11:19 PM   #11
Pooh-Bah
 
boomshakalaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,462
Re: PSA: Weird new regulations Canada/US border >10K cash

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnlyCardINeed View Post
Not the same for driving across. Driving you only deal with the agent on duty and cannot go to Canadian or US customs before crossing. There is a sign posted up on the booths (at least in BC) that says "if carrying greater than $10,000 in currency across the border you must declare it"

Also, taking the train, you declare when you are going to board the train at customs and you declare again when border guards do their walk through at the crossing.
this is incorrect, read my post above.
boomshakalaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2010, 11:32 PM   #12
veteran
 
tonymark01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: wug
Posts: 3,130
Re: PSA: Weird new regulations Canada/US border >10K cash

shrug, i'd probably just become averse to carrying cash around

Last edited by tonymark01; 01-21-2010 at 11:33 PM. Reason: must be a neat problem to have, iyam
tonymark01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2010, 12:34 AM   #13
Pooh-Bah
 
stevepa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,658
Re: PSA: Weird new regulations Canada/US border >10K cash

Weird...I've carried >10k to the US two or three times (edit: most recently June for WSOP), declared it at customs and never had any problems (other than standard questions/forms/money count) or had anyone tell me I did anything wrong. Where is this Canadian customs we're supposed to find?
stevepa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2010, 08:15 PM   #14
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DoGGz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: dogonthecircuit
Posts: 13,336
Re: PSA: Weird new regulations Canada/US border >10K cash

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevepa View Post
Weird...I've carried >10k to the US two or three times (edit: most recently June for WSOP), declared it at customs and never had any problems (other than standard questions/forms/money count) or had anyone tell me I did anything wrong. Where is this Canadian customs we're supposed to find?
At any major boarder crossing, it will be near the crossing. If you are talking about flying, I have no idea how to declare it to the country you are departing.
DoGGz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2010, 09:19 PM   #15
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ARFARFARF
Posts: 2,592
Re: PSA: Weird new regulations Canada/US border >10K cash

fwiw i still did not declare a second time before leaving US and had zero problems upon arrival in Australia. Take that system. Makes sense that this has always been the law, but of the 4 or 5 times I've crossed a border with cash I've never had to do this and never been informed of it before this week.
TheNewf is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive