I have scanned this thread briefly and not sure what to think yet until read properly in the morning, the only thing i have to say is why is this thread moved from MTTc to internet poker? i think either it should stay here, or also both 180man team competition thread plus the 180man regular thread gets moved to internet poker forum also to shed some light on if 180man related meaningful threads belong in MTTc.

Information from Poland players exchange very quickly using messenger.

If this was any other country that was colliding/softplaying, I would have posted this as well. It's racist when you play your fellow Pole's soft and play other players harder.


Poland people are very clever though at trying to cover it up. Its very hard to figure their act unless you pay attention.


Also isn't it kind of funny the poland players all mentioned this thread so quickly? I posted this and lot of poland players already mentioned this at the table. You guys are very quick with your instant messenger.

It's painful that you put so much effort into creating such an embarrasing OP

If you see poland player at the table by themselves, you can pretty much expect close 100% they will be playing very tight even if they are a loose.


However, once there are 2 or 3 or even 4 or 5 poland players, get ready for the min raises once blinds get very high. Yesterday it was hilarious seeing them do the poland raise poland BB so many times and then them getting shoved on so many times and they folding almost every single time that they started to then open limp to project a monster as another strategy of theirs only to get shoved on so many times.

Nobody else believes anything you say has any merit. Your xenophobia is a bit different than usual in terms of the country picked (most go with Russia), but other than that you are a fairly standard non-self-aware bigot, nothing more. Your bigotry and paranoia likely costs you money at teh tables, but I doubt anyone else cares about that either.

I believe him somewhat, i always ask myself how these ****ty regulars have somewhat decent winrates, but there are methods to beat their methods of collusion quite easily,just use your note system and adjust accordingly, ill be keeping my eyes out, thanks OP

There is probably some truth to what he has presented in regards to collusion and soft-playing in these games. Probably not just limited to one nationality either but it would be naive to think that everyone was playing 100% honestly as well.

Obviously, everything else is just silly and petty and well pretty darn peculiar!

I don't know coincidence anymore than you don't know sporadic sarcasm. Smh

Sporadic sarcasm?

I've reread your post a couple more times, and if sarcasm was used, I don't know to what end.

These Poland players can't win if they are by themselves. Notice how many of them who are very tight start loosening up very much once they have 2 or more Poland players at the table.


And even certain Poland players who are a bit loose, they are pretty tight once they are by themselves when no fellow Polish player at the table.



You can ask any non-poland player that plays these. Most won't even notice it but once you look at this, its hard to defend a poland player. Looking at these hand histories, its very hard to defend any poland player. Poland player reraising a poland player every time and the initial poland player folding almost every time? Not a coincidence. And after catching them doing this with certain hands, its hard to defend a poland player for their actions.


Of course the only players that would defend them are... well poland players of course.

This is how I see it.

OP did u ever email Stars?
As this is the most logical route to take prior to posting here.

If it wasn't before now, this has certainly made it very clear that you are a top notch jackass.

OP is clearly an imbecile, and has presented what little evidence (if any) he has quite poorly. That being said, I and many other long-time satelite / mtt / MTSNG grinders I associate with have said for a while that there are a few large clusters of Polish and Lithuanian players displaying suspicious behaviour in certain games on Stars. I have no evidence to support any allegations of collusion or team play so I won't make any, but I'd say it's about time Stars considered extending the restrictions on common interest players competing in the same games.

My understanding is it's against the TOS for two players with a "close relationship" to sit at the same cash table or join the same STT, but field sizes of 45 and over are fair game. That should probably be reviewed, if only for appearance's sake.

That's the unfortunate thing about the way OP presents his case - there could be a genuine problem buried amongst all his xenophobic rantings, but it's hard to take him seriously.

Stars allows coaches and their students to play in the same STTs if they are regs without prior issues. It's up to Stars discretion not a set rule.

This is a very good post and is the reason I no longer feel comfortable playing in these games during hours that these players play together.

I have undeniable proof that some Lithuanians seek each other out in the same games and this has never been addressed by Stars except to offer a blanket statement saying that they don't collude.

check them on sharkscope.com.

if they are grinders and go soft on each other it should definitely be visible in their some of its stats like most profitable player, most frequent player and other stats.

also its a strange that a site as colossal as stars with technology and everything on their side allow something like this to happen.

can anyone with access of sharkscope post their stats please? its more fishy if all of them have locked themselves there.

dondrew - have you spoken to Stars about your concerns?

Its very difficult to get anyone banned for collusion at pokerstars because of their idea of how they identify it.
The response you will usually always get after the review is a sample of 4 or 5 hands where their clashed all in, usually where 1 of the players had something stupid like 3 big blinds and they had to call, and because of this all collusion is ruled out.

I like the idea of limiting players who know each other in sats, its the only way to make a fair game.
Right now, sats average under 100 players, with around 20% of the field all knowing each other in person/on skype.Id like to know how all other players in these games, especially rec players would feel about this if they knew these facts.

It's funny that you posted itt... I recently emailed Stars and chose you as an example. What I proposed was for them to count how many examples you and I both got it all in against one another post add on over my last 500 sats... and then asked them to count how many times the entire Lithuanian player pool who were at my table got it all in against one another.

The math, if all is legit, should show that they'd be KOing/crippling one another probably 100's of times more often then you and I koing/crippling one another but I have yet to receive a response and if they were to check this type of analysis the proof of collusion would be undeniable even to them.

Obviously I multitable but I am not lying when I say I don't recall seeing a single time where they got it all in and if they did where the shorter stack has a worse hand. The methods that the OP is talking about is precisely what Lithuanians and to a lesser extent Poles do everyday.

My proof that Lithuanians are seeking each other out stems from a single example but it should be crystal clear to any T grinder that it's undeniable.
For those not familiar with satellite T grinders the common method to acquire T money is through playing sats where the sat will end (3x's is 2h 45min max in smaller fields) prior to the target tourney starting, and then unreg from the target tourney.

In one APPT sat 3x to a $215 I noticed 5 Lithuanians all had registered for it... yet all 5 didn't make the add on. The reason being is they made a mistake and the target tourney was starting way prior to the satellite ending so after realizing their mistake of registering they didn't rebuy. These players always make the add-on 100% of the time.

This type of mistake is nearly impossible to make for a legitimate experienced T grinder... yet in this single tourney 5 Lithuanians all made the same error at the same time. Either they're bots and the programmer made an error... or they look each other up and auto reg the same tourney... or they're all sitting in the same room and all made the mistake at once. No matter how you look at it there's less then a .0000001% chance that this could be an accident.

From a business standpoint I have no idea why Stars lets players who they know each other/staked together play in these satellites.

1) Collusion is bound to occur with such familiarity.
2) They are winning players and therefore bad for the economy. (Stars pov)
3) Recs don't reg when they see a sat lobby filled with up to 50% of the field being Lithuanians.

This is interesting that you mention Lithuanians softplay as well. That is also very true but I did not mention this as this was solely about Poland players. The Lithuanians don't do it as bad as the Poland players.


Also if you don't think those hands look bad at all, then I don't know what most of you are looking at. These things aren't a coincidence when it happens at every table once multiple poland players are at the table. So when one poland player raises gets a non-poland caller then another fellow poland would just join the pot as well?


He wouldn't if the initial raiser wasn't poland. Also you will see a lot of overcalling as well when there are 2 or more poland players in a pot. Rarely do they ever if any overcall a bet with a bet an a call. Yet when there is a fellow poland player there, they can call since they have their fellow buddy to back them up. Again i had thought it was a coincidence but after a while, its not hard to figure what they are doing.


Do you think its a coincidence when these poland players all play tight at 13/11 to 16/13 then once there are 3-4 poland players... you have 1 or 2 of them suddenly raising every single hand or every other hand? And then it basically almost every hand if the BB is a Pole? This never happens when they are by themselves. Even some of the rare looser Poland players play very tight when they are by themselves.

OP might well be a paranoid xenophobe, but there could be something dodgy going on. Stars' anti-fraud team can see the hole cards, and also knows which players have "connections" with each other. Ask the security dept to take a look. Whining about your suspicions doesn't achieve anything. Report it to the authorities that can actually investigate the matter.

The problem with the OP is that his whole theory is that every player in entire countries are colluding, which is impractical and obvious xenophobia. He posted some names at the start of the thread and some research shows they do not have any patterns of collusive behavior, so while no doubt some people from every country on the planet collude at times - what is he supposed to email Stars? All of Poland and Lithuania and other countries I do not like collude together?

Sure some collusion and softplay happens. When I played DoNs it was natural to go easier on other regs than randoms, even with no organized effort, just as a function of the game and the fact you are playing these people every day. However, to simply say entire countries collude is meaningless, even if some collusion takes place in the games, including people from those countries.


The OP's claims are meaningless, because the context of his claims are absurd.