Was just thinking, that the games have become really dull due to the lengthy late reg.

Instead of having 2 hours of late reg for example of each Big 4.4 and Bounty builder 4.40, it would be better to have late reg for 1 hour and have a new Big and Bounty same buying start up after the first Big and BB closes.

I like that idea.

Big 4.4 runs at 9:00 PM and 10 PM closes late reg in 60 mins.

Same for all buyins.

Cool idea, i'll support it

who would suggest an idea they dont like?

Pls post more often again

Extra value comes from the guys who will punt off buyins grabbing a 10bb or less stack with 1 min late reg left, i don't see a problem with this 'long' 2 hour late reg, try some of ACRs turbos with ~5 hr late reg, that is maybe overboard but still, people max late reg with ~1bb so w.e .

I don't see where you think this "extra value" is coming from, anyone who is at least decent would rather play with 8 other 40bb stacks than 4 40bb and 4 10bb stacks, edges are drastically reduced for the bigger stacks when the table is littered with tiny stacks presuming ICM considerations aren't in play, which there generally aren't at the end of the late reg period. The playing experience would be much better if the late registration went back to 1 hour for all the bigs/hots and reserve the longer lateregs for games like majors and series like WCOOP/SCOOP.

+1

Mixed feelings on latereg. It inflates prizepools but it turns otherwise great slow structures into meh structures throughout a large portion of it with so many people entering late ruining the average stack and playability. Also anyone lateregging has an inherent advantage when everyone plays perfectly, but it's not enough to beat rake or anything. Basically, late-reggers don't win a lot (paying 10% rake for a 10bb stack), they reduce the winrate of people regging early and make every tournament longer or the structure worse. In a perfect world late registration would be no further than a 50bb starting stack imo.

Agree, late reg has now become such a problem that the only viable solution seems to be to greatly reduce the late reg period. Start by reducing 50% across the board; it should greatly improve the situation.

why would stars want to reduce late reg?

I like the extended late reg that stars has now. Means bigger prize pools and allows me to limit tables and play more games overall. ACR is a bit much though lol

I like the longer late reg tbh

I've always hated the 2h late reg. It ruins the dynamics for everyone that builds a stack in the first 60-90 minutes, it seems to make the structure shallower in the middle stages, and it makes the games last longer before the bubble is reached.

Definitely agree that having more tournaments available more frequently would reduce the need for longer late-reg periods. And it's not just two hours of late registration. The Bigs have 2h 20m of late registration, and the Bounty Builders have 2h 10m, while all the filler tournaments have 2h (which gets confusing btw, why not give them all the same duration?).

For Championship Events, what is your opinion on this? When it comes to someone coming into an Event with a starting stack, while the average stack is perhaps two or three times the starting stack, how does someone coming in at a relative disadvantage affect the dynamics of your table (and/or the overall Event) more than someone whose stack has dwindled down to that same level being moved to your table? Regardless of those factors, is the ability for late registering players to significantly amp up the prize pool worth any potential annoyance to you?

Thanks for your time.

all the non special mtts have had their guarantees drop greatly since the new 2 hour late reg so the argument that it boosts prizepools doesn't make sense.

I know for a fact a recreational player who says "oh 2 hours late reg stuff that" recs like seeing the number of entrants decrease as they progress through a mtt atleast after an hour giving them the sense they are getting closer to the finish line.

May be run some mtts and brand them as "The Freeze" and give them 30-60 late min reg with 15 min levels. Atleast there are some mtts we know that finish in 5-6 hrs instead of 8-10 hrs of battle.

These can co-exist, give them a color tag or something and nurture them for some recs/regs.

I come home and see all these bigs and bounties and make it difficult to motivate to a big grind. And besides them the no label games are dying, give the unlabelled mtts a brand name and see them grow.

Need some vanilla poker as well.

@Bryan: I haven't played in any of the championship events before because I don't have the money to do so, nor am I likely to play any in the near future. For that reason, I can't really comment on them specifically. My experience comes solely from playing micro-stakes MTTs on a recreational basis, but have been doing so since 2007 so I've seen quite a few different structures over the years. My answers below are based on that experience.

My concern here isn't so much related to the size the stacks when compared to other chip stacks, but rather in terms of big blinds. As late-registration nears the end of the 2 hours a starting stack is only about 10 big blinds. If a player has built up a stack of let's say 100bb, he is unable to use it to see flops and make decisions on later streets when 3 or 4 players on the table have just joined with short stacks. If late registration was not in play there is usually only 1, or maybe 2, players who's stacks have dwindled so short, which isn't nearly as bad.

The only way to solve this (IMO) is to update the structure so that the starting stack is deeper at the end of late-registration. To accomplish that we need either a slower structure, deeper starting stack, or shorter late-registration. The first two will make the tournaments even longer, which is not desired.

With the awareness that the regular tournaments are handled by Luke rather than yourself, I would ask if the number of players that register in the second hour of late registration is "significantly" more than the number of players that register in the first hour (assuming only two hours of late-reg). It also depends on what you feel is a "significant" boost to the prize pool. If I have to play for longer to earn the same minimal prize, then no, the bottom prizes simply aren't worth it (or even the middle prizes). If it means earning 50% more when making a deep run but only requiring an extra hour of play then sure, but the deep run is a rarity. I play micro-stakes tournaments, so the money is not significant to begin with, and on the recreational side, my time is more important to me. I play to enjoy poker. When the pre-bubble portion feels like it is dragging on and on, I start to lose my enjoyment.

26sk8er make a good point as well, and is actually something I have commented on (to myself, while playing). When I am 90 minutes into a tournament I want to be able to look at the number of players remaining and see that number lower than it was 60 minutes into the tournament, and not by just one or two players. Because the number hardly changes over the last 25% or 50% of the late registration period it feels as if the tournament is not making any progress.

BTW, thanks Bryan for popping in to comment on the thread

This, on a day where I actually play a lot of MTTs (Sunday, COOP seriesfor example) it's nice for example to be able to wake up when the Bounty 215 starts and still get in the kickoff and a few other early starting MTTs, would assume tons of players, pros and recs alike, share the same sentiment

Love the new late reg.

Agree with this point. I'm on a bit of a downswing from my MTTs on Stars and I think some of it is due to the variance and new payout structure on Stars and some of it my play but looking over my bb/100 expected winrates at variance stages of the tournament and I've noticed a severe drop off between the early stages and around the time after late reg leg stops. I have about a ~15bb/100 on average in the early game(first two hours of tournaments) and now a low single digits expected BB around the middle game(end of late reg time) to about BB3000 in MTTs. I do feel I need to adjust my strategy a bit better for all these short stacks at my tables but it does hurt a bit mentally to continually build stacks in tournaments in the early game and then be forced to tighten up my game so much in the middle game because of all the short stacks entering the tournament. It's not as bad in the six man MTTs but in Fullring with antes it's freaking brutal on the player experience.

Ya, I agree if late reg was used in this way by most players. Some players are for sure definitely abusing the true spirit of what late reg was intended for in poker and that of which I believe was to give players a bit of room to enter a tournament late if time prevented them from entering at the start.

That's clearly not what is happening online. Players are deliberately entering tournaments late with personal considerations to max their hourly/ROI and table count in these tournaments at the expense of the table starters.

Agree with this point. I'm on a bit of a downswing from my MTTs on Stars and I think some of it is due to the variance and new payout structure on Stars and some of of my play but looking over my bb/100 expected winrates at variance stages of the tournament and I've noticed a severe drop off between the early stages and around the time after late reg leg stops. I have about a ~15bb/100 on average in the early game(first two hours of tournaments) and now a low single digits expected BB around the middle game(end of late reg time) to about BB3000 in MTTs. I do feel I need to adjust my strategy a bit better for all these short stacks at my tables but it does hurt a bit mentally to continually build stacks in tournaments in the early game and then be forced to tighten up my game so much in the middle game because of the short stacks entering the tournament. It's not as bad in the six man MTTs but in Fullring with antes it's freaking brutal on the player experience as well.

Ya, I agree if late reg was used in this way by most players. Some players are for sure definitely abusing the true spirit of what late reg was intended for in poker and that of which I believe was to give players a bit of room to enter a tournament late if time prevented them from entering at the start.

That's clearly not what is happening online. Players are deliberately entering tournaments late with personal considerations to max their hourly/ROI and table count in these tournaments at the expense of the table starters.

I think 2 hours late reg should be the exception not the rule. 2 hour + Late reg / re-entries / rebuy seem to be the norm. Other than pros I am not sure who would find a 5 hour plus late reg game attractive.

Out of the 23 games currently in late reg period on stars only 6-7 have late reg for 1 hour or less. Out of those tournaments, one was a 25 min time tourney so I shouldn't even be counting it. One is a Hyper with 3 minute blinds. And the others are turbo with one being a bubble rush.

I mainly stick to the micro Badugi / Razz and Ante-up games currently offered and even those have 2 hour late reg and re-entry but at least the gntd is low enough that the game don't run an excessive amount of time.