Responding to the bold.

Offering a wider array of offerings to has some benefits but also can split the player pool. This can cause overlays in other satellites and have them be cancelled. I don't think Unibets at the point in their Satellite program to start this.

I do agree that flips aren't a bad method for users from other channels but flips for cash would probably suit them better as they have an even tougher challenge in the target tourney and will likely walk away with nothing.

Flips (at a now reasonable rake if such a thing exists) for players who can't be bothered with lower buy in satellites is a valid point and should help the target tourney.

I think UO2 flips would be popular, there are always quite a few sat out players in these games.

I am sure the players that would normally reg for these and sit out would opt for the flip mtt instead.

With 4k starting stack and 8/9 min. blinds is what I meant.

I like both ideas. Flips for cash and having them in games where ppl tend to sit out more are good ideas and will talk about it with the team.
We will be careful to affect general satellites by flips.

From tomorrow this tournament will run with the 4k starting and 9 min. levels. I can imagine with this structure it will suit better to the Deepstack and the Daily 25 that are running.
New name: €225 GTD Twenty Five Bounty

Great job, thnx!

If you set the filter on qualifiers some of the Saturday Stack sats don't pop up.

ok thanks, I will investigate.

Is it a possibility to add early antes in deepstack MTT'S? I think it would definitely improve the game.

Are you sure that fields will increase if you make allmost every MTT deepstacked en from 8 to 12 min blinds? There are no MTT's with blindlevels like 6 min and startingstack around 3 k (except the € 4 bounty at 19.30 cet but again startstack 7k). They last to long and winning about € 50,00 for 4 to 5 hours playing isnt worth the effort. And cause of the duration there are no mtt for a working guy at primetime .

Hi Unibetrep,

Could you post the latest mtt spreadsheet please

+1

Why don't make the €2000gtd sunday evening a €25 MTT with 5k starting stack?

Ok I have to let some steam out after playing tonight on Unibet.

The issue I have is the Norwegian Online Championship ME thats was held tonight in you client (tournament ID 2885015) Buy-in €80+8, after let reg was over we were 877 runners.

that made a prizepool of €70,160 with 108 player payed, but the winner of the event is to recieve a meager €6,019.73 for first place + a €800 live MTT ticket.

that first place in percent is roughly 8,5% of the prizepool, where as other MTTs on other sites with similar amount of runners will have somewhere within 15-20% for first place. Also the min cash is a loltastic €350 for an €88 buy-in.

I know Unibet has made changes and are enforcing a "social gaming experience" but this is just waaay off..

The winner of this event is if put to the point "cheated out of somewhere in the range of €5-7k)

The game has paused for day-2 and will resume tomorrow at 8pm CET, but I doubt that nothing will be changed now that the tournament has started.

None the less that payout structure is an utter disgrace.

To have multiple blind structures to choose from is on our priority list

Thanks for telling us what you are missing in the schedule. I'd like to know the time and buy-in you would like to see an event with 3k, 6 min?

Take a look at the avg length of the Turbo Deepstacks below.
Here are some average durations of evening tournaments in Jan:





https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...sa4/edit#gid=0

Should be up to date. If something is missing let me know.

I like this idea, we will consider. Thanks!

We appreciate your feedback regarding this.

We are using one prize-distribution model at the moment. When this was created several aspects where taken into consideration. A less top heavy pay-out model squeezing everything to just 1 player, when the player’s pool increases and more reward for finishing in the money was considered to be better. Our aim is to keep casual players alive for longer, and flatter pay-out structures help that. Also considering how much variance will affect your chance of winning a big field tournament.

This scales just fine for €1 tournaments but doesn't for a tournament with a buy-in this big, so we agree and we'd change it in the future.

The downside from this deviation from the standard is that it is hard to use 1st prize money as a selling point and that players are too used to an old standard, which make them assume this is wrong.

We are constantly looking to improve Unibet Poker and will work on better pay-out structures suitable for specific events.

As goodwill we also added a Unibet Open package worth €2k on top for the winner.

I totally understand that companies want to give recs more $/€ in winnings, of course so they get the opportunity to loose it gradualy in your pockets without considering a withdrawl.

But if you as a player enter a tournament with the mindset as "Hey it would be cool to win this tournament, so I dont care if the deviate from normal structures just so everyone else gets a little more money" you are dead of the bat.

You have to take in to consideration that this perticular MTT is a one of, a championship event with added prestige, titles etc. Of course the best 9 players of the tournament should be rewarded accordingly as a normal payout structure suggests. Is it really too much to ask for in a championship event that the FT get proper rewards?

Yes you added a €2k Unibet Open package to the winner, what about the rest of guys on the FT? It`s a easy and cheap gesture from your side to win back the recs and unknowing. For people that has been in the game a long time its just a huge F*** Y**. I would have felt really cheated had I come in 1st knowing that on any other given site I would have won aprox €7k more aka €13k. same goes for the rest of the FT.

I mean when you decided on this particular structure, did you ever run a simulation on possible payouts? If so in what universe is a 4,4x min cash return normal.

If I had not been in the game a long time and also not worked in the industry previously I could accept this error as a "one off", but the way things have played out it just comes down to incompetence and greed.

The reason that poker has been falling for the past five years is that existing players are better but new players are still new. That means new players die faster, which means they never come back. New player lifetimes are way down compared to where they were five or ten years ago.

Keeping them alive longer means that we can grow. Of course it's good for us to grow, but it's good for you too to have new players alive in your games for longer.

What about all the people who just did a lot better out of this tournament than they would have done with a steeper payout structure? Sure, if you say in retrospect that the final nine are worse off you're right, but if you say in advance that a random entrant is worse off, you're wrong. The EV is the same but the variance is lower.

And now you've devolved into being offensive.

@ UnibetRep

Any chance the 20:15 Deep Crazy Regular Bounties could be switched to progressive bounties? Could help them grow a bit more.

Could we get another 1 or even 2 Ten Turbos in the afternoon around 1.30pm to 4.30pm, seems to be a lacking in this area with only a Two/Four Turbos and Ante Turbos.

Thanks

Yeah IMO the payout structure is better off flat, but of course mincashing should be less than 4x buyin and more people should then be paid out instead. A lot more recs get paid then and it keeps them coming back because its easier to cash in. We have gotten used to the top heavy 10% structure. Things need to change though.

Look at 18 mans on pokerstars, they are very popular among rec players for a long time. They have flat payout structure with 22% get paid. Where 45 mans and 180 mans popularity at 15$ stakes has declined in recent years. Maybe the reason is because they are 15% get paid with top heavy structure. Yes maybe reg loses ROI short term, but rec keeps playing because he knows he can double his money sometimes so games are more sustainable for an extra timeframe. That $ made in that timeframe is greater than the $ lost from the ROI. ICM changes quite a bit in flat payout structure also so maybe some regs can adjust to this and gain edge over others.

Can still always shave an extra couple % for top 3 in large fields. Gotta find the balance.

Flat payouts in MTT's is much like cash games that are designed to protect the depositing player. (no huds/scripts/etc).

For cash games if a rec knew what he was up against I think he'd be appreciative of Unibets efforts to thwart the predatory behaviour that pros often exhibit. in essence cash games aren't a "get rich quick" proposal to the rec player and therefore he wants the best environment to last.

But for MTT's it's a little different. MTT's do offer a "get rich quick" option and that is the appeal of MTT's for a lot of rec players. When you flatten the payout you may be "protecting" the rec but you're also driving him away from the site. From Unibets standpoint this is a tough situation. The very thing that a rec wants is what will hurt him long term.

I'd have to see what Unibets MTT numbers were 1 year ago and compare the growth compared to cash games... but my instinct tells me they haven't grown nearly as much. Part of the reason is a cash game is a cash game regardless of the site yet for MTT's only certain sites can offer the huge guarantee's and Unibet isn't one of them. Other reasons to a lesser extent could be the slightly higher rake on Unibet and the payout structures.

In balance I think Unibet should open up a lot more in terms of MTT's and stop worrying so much about protecting the rec player. What's the point of protecting someone who will only play on your site if he see's big 1st place payouts.

I think we both agree that the payout schedule for this tournament wasn't great. We were explaining why it was the way it was, not saying we wouldn't change it if we win the random draw for the Norwegian Championships main event next year.

We don't have 700 odd runners in our big weekly tournaments, so it hasn't been an issue in those before. Our biggest tournament, the Sunday Entitled, is qualifier-only, so I think it's best to have a flat schedule there. Maybe for the Saturday Stack etc. we would be better off with a steeper payout schedule.

Cash game revenue year on year is +45%, MTT is +69% by the way. We don't have anything like as high a percentage of our total revenue from MTT as PS do though. This is an area that should grow faster than cash as we grow because cash games don't grow in such a linear fashion with liquidity, while MTT do.

Is it possible to add an UO10 turbo around 19:00-20:00 GMT in the schedule?

Deep Crazy Bounties
From tomorrow €70 GTD Deep Crazy Bounty & €75 GTD Deep Crazy Bounty will run as progressive. Both start at 20:15 UTC

€10 Turbos
From tomorrow:
- the €250 GTD Ante Turbo Bounty will be moved from 13:30 to 14:30 UTC
- the €250 GTD Deepstack Turbo will be added at 13:30 UTC
- the €100 GTD Ten Turbo will be added at 15:30 UTC

Added Unibet Open €10 Turbo at 19:25. Will start from tomorrow.

Awesome!