+1

Shen I've played with you for years and you've clearly got the skill, intelligence and work motivation (not to mention bankroll) that you could be could join the club of former 180 grinders that crush higher stakes MTTs. It's cool and everything, but it's a bit absurd for you to be telling us we're moving no-where.

And FWIW last year Shen made $55,911 (which is still dam good) in 180s as one of the best players in the game in softer games then we now face, Im looking forward to seeing his list of grinders that are expecting to make 100k in 180s this year...

lol this guy have played 65k 180s, brags about being able to teach people how to make 100k a year and rambles about treadmills, I dig your style.

I think SmoLL10 is the prime candidate for this year to make 100k...

I think that Brian guy being coached by Double Ice will probably be able to make 100k/year at 180s after the coaching.

trolololol

1) Re read my post, unless my english is even worse than I believe it is, I only stated that, in the only and minimal aspect that you interacted as a human being with me you proved to be a better poker player than a person, but I did not ever sayd you had been a Scum, however if that is the conclusion that you read out of yourself about our mentioned interactions, maybe it´s time for you to do some propper instrospection and try to look at yourself behind that big ego of yours. Take that from an old bastard who might or might not believed he knew it all cause he made more $ than the other 20 somethings of his time.

To put in words you will sure understand regardless my English limitations:

Shen > Shark > Reg > Bad Reg > Random > Fish > joseracer

Insert your fav human being > totally unselfish guy > Good Guy > OK Guy > Guy > Shen (My impresion of you in my pretty small sample) > Scum > Hitler.


2) Since we are in the "post the little bits of the skype conv that make me look fine" fasshion:


July 21 (totally forgot abut """""""owing"""""" $ 55 of the "to be had" coaching"

Not yet a scumm, but not as good a human being as a poker player you are IMO.

3) I felt like I felt about you because of you being a SUPER PRO for all the things that being such favor your interests:

- Hourly rate
- Charge in advance
- Strict timing / breaks / etc
- Prequisites I must accept before being worthy of shiping you $ 450 to have the honour of you blessing me with 3 hours of your time 22 days after I do so.
- Etc.

Fair Enough, I mean, you are THE MAN grinding 180´s and your knowledge is worth it.

SUPER NON PRO in wich must favor me:

- Tell me before the 3 hrs session how / what should i do to make the most of it

- Ohh dear, what are the chances, that was THE day you happened to be offfline on skype and came to light 30 minutes before the stated time with """" car problems"""" (let me keep my unbelieff quotes, I´ll base them on the several times over my long life I wanted to skip a responsability and had """ car problems """" of my own, sorry if I´m miss judgind but you wont take me that impression otu just by typing or whatever you say / post here) and asked me to rescheudle, NICE SHEN, yours is the only time that´s worht a crap on the surface of this planet, sorry mate, but GTFO, you and your 200+k poker incomes, period.

etc
etc
etc.

I´ll blame the coaching session being 100% worthless to me on the fact that all of the previously stated got me in a mood where a physics class given by Albert Einstein himself would have been **** for me, so, assume that failling its 100% my fault by not being upfront and asking you to reschedule, arranging my brother to take care of my father again further in the week, etc.etc.etc.

So that´s why i wont tell here if you are as good as a coach as you seem to be as a grinder, but I stand my case in you not behaving nice with me and our arrangement.


4) and just to help you understand your ego problem, I suggest you to go to your web page, sign your own contract with yourself, 5 table for about 5 months, get rid of your """car problems""" for a year and BOOOOOOOOOOOOM you will almost double your yearly 180 man earnings.

PROOF:





Regards.

José.



My apollogies to everyone reading this post and to the English language in general

i didnt visit this thread in 4 days and everything interesting happens when im not here... std 2+2

Dude, what you paid for has nothing to do with materials. It was my time. I am not going to sit here and keep going back and forth with you. My hourly is $150/hr. I've spent >5hrs with you. Above all else, you agreed to the terms. My didn't pull that number of out my ass. End of story.

If you truly feel you didn't get full value from the money you paid, that's too bad but I believe there was more than fair value. Regardless, the fact remains, I only did what was stated in the contract. Of which I explained to you in full prior to signing. By your own decision, you agreed and signed up for. I am a scum because I exercised agreed upon terms? Seriously?

Slaves? Haha, do you not understand there is a process to coaching? Lets say there is a hypothetical game where you can multi-table algebra problems for money. Let say this student is not very good at math fundamentals, doesn't understand basics very well. Do you tell your student to "go ahead, go jump straight in and start heavy mulch-tabling algebra. It's okay, just learn how to add/subtract/multiply while you're 20 tabling."

So instead of hammering down basic fundamental knowledge in the beginning. You don't do that and have to delay progress by say 1-2 months. All the meanwhile, concerned with silly volume, of which was put in at a very suboptimal level because your fundamental knowledge was bad. Now you have to go back to basics after 1-2 months when you realize you were in too much of a rush to put in volume.

Do you not understand I have a lot more coaching experience than you have? Maybe through this experience, I know what works/what doesn't. Maybe I am not trying to "slave" you away. Maybe I am just putting you through the correct processes, that through my experience, know works?

Including you, I had 5 students at the time - You, Mackie, David, Roger, Mario

Roger,Mario - about 1.5 months in, so in beginners stage, volume restriction have been loosened up gradually since they started as they are beginning to move out of basic competency zone.

You - 2-3 weeks in, very beginner stage. Heavy restriction, for a specific purpose - point is not to put in volume, it's to learn and apply new concepts at a slow pace so we get it right the 1st time. Not have to go back to basic 3 months down the road because you were too concerned with volume.

David,Mackie - past 2 months in. No volume restrictions. Period.

Anyone who doesn't believe me can go ask my students.

i have a question, who are your students and how have they done after your coaching? still not interested just curious

As I've mentioned prior, I don't disagree with the notion that mid-stakes MTT is the next logical step. But as I told prodigyXII, the situation is not all the clear. It's a not definitive answer that MSMTTs are the way to go. It's even more murky picture when you consider the fact that I believe there is still room for growth in the 180s. No one has hit their ceiling.

To the guys doubting 100K/year is not possible. I am on pace to do it this year (providing I don't slack). Lilbigkahuna is as well. But obviously to make 100K/year, one would have to put in the volume.

To Jose, who posted my 2010 earnings. I made ~56k. Playing ~21k games. Anyone who plays full-time and has no other side gig, should very reasonably be able to put in 3500 games/month. So if you play 3500 games/month, thats 42,000 games a year. I played exactly half that volume. And was 6k ahead pace.

Do you not to see that volume and profit go hand in hand? That maybe because I have other side gigs (coaching for starters) that I didn't put in the volume that I had wanted to? That I also DID slack off that year? But for anyone willing to put in the time, not slack, you CAN earn 100k+/year.

Shen do you really believe that a hour a month over 14 months (and don't lie and say you spend sooooooo much time with your players)

Why are pulling stuff outta your ass? Please name me the student that has only gotten 1hr/month over 14 months?


180s is a great stepping stone in poker and something that allows people to get a lot of hours in at the tables understanding things like Push/Fold, ICM etc its not something most plan on doing for longer then a year as is.

Whatever the ultimate goal is for each student. That's their business. What they did was come to me SPECIFICALLY to learn how to beat 180s. My training program is for 180s and 180s alone. They know that. That's what they signed up for. And note: my business is a TRAINING PROGRAM in which payment is via % deals. Not a staking/coach relationship where the specifics are constantly changing.

So when they come to me, I have one specific job - teach them everything and anything to know regarding 180s. My job is to turn them in a high-level player. Not possibly move them into MTTs. Not cash games. Not HU SNGs. 180s only.

grunch. Cliffs of 180 drama plz

You're exactly right. This program is not for everyone. I've turned down probably a ratio of 2-1, maybe 3-1 of students who applied-signed up.

Every student that has signed up has been warned before hand that is this a rigorous program. That they have to put in hard work.

I am trying to control someone's life? Every student that has signed up, I've told them full-time hours are expected. Period. I've told them this is your job now. It's only the professional that students provide full commitment on their end, so I can do my job properly.

For my training program to work, it has to be their sole focus. If they thought his was too controlling, why are they signing up?

Ending the stake when I feel like is my choice. It the student is not ideal, is not cut out for my program, I am doing both parties a favor by ending the agreement. All I asked is fee in exchange for the time I've put in with them, of which they agreed upon. Whether you think it's fair value, that's your view. But it certainly isn't unreasonable, certainly isn't "high-way robbery" as you like to put it.

But why I would end any arrangements if I think they have potential? Why would I do that when I can make a bunch of money from the deal? You act as if my whole plan is to trick people into singing up, tell them they suck, and collect fees for my time. Easy game.

But the fact is, I actually have never canceled on a student. The only student that has had their agreement canceled, is Oxmop. And he came to me to quit. I didn't cancel on him.

You guys all make it to seem like I tricked people into signing up. Have a chain/whip telling em what to do,when to do it,etc. Haha, are you kidding me? I take my responsibilities as a coach very seriously. I've told my students upfront what the terms were to work with me. In order for to maximize their value from paying me, I have to push them along. Of course I have be the "bad guy' sometimes and tell them to go do stuff (memorize X, study Y, review Z) they might not feel like at the time. But all of this is necessary. They wanted to go crush 180s. I am telling them how they gonna do it, what they have to do.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2488
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2472
shen88888 contract for 180 mans horses 35k games at 14 months etc.
Dispute with a horse that left the stable etc.

Jose, no offense, but in all honesty I don't fully understand what you wrote. Not really sure what the point you're trying to make.

in the only and minimal aspect that you interacted as a human being with me you proved to be a better poker player than a person,

Please read the convo that is pasted. In what way did I gave you the impression that I am a ****TY human being. WHAT?

Did I not apologize and made amends right away?

[7/21/2011 8:12:12 PM] Nike Shen: well, 1st off, you still owe me 55.82

Seriously? You are calling me a ****ty human being when I am simply stating that you still have yet to pay 55.82 for the coaching that you purchased? For which we agree that payment was upfront? But since you had transfer issues on Stars, I said go ahead and just transfer whenever you can. But I still held out the agreed upon coaching date/time on my calender, even though you haven't paid in full?

You're calling me a ****ty human being for what? Running a frigging business properly?

most interesting to come back to this thread..

But in between all the bit*ching from now on - would you guys mind putting in some damn threadsavers?

Bit*ching A+
Bit*ches F

Here we go.

Alright, so if I haven't proven myself and cleared my name, I would be open to the idea of allowing someone who is a respected voice around here and is trustworthy (so as to not scam me like oxmop) to view my forums and talk to any of my current/past student in training program.

You can verify everything I've said is true. See that I provide quality coaching and my operation is well-run.

But I don't think you guys would want to waste your time - seeing that the guys making baseless accusations not only do not have the facts but are complete morons. BUT, if anyone doubts it, and can suggest someone who meets the 2 criteria stated above please feel free to PM me or offer your time.

And to all the SNG grinders out there. If you are willing to put in work and want to be amongst some of the best 180man players in 1 year - come work with me and I'll make sure you reach your goals.

If you don't want to work hard, this isn't for you. If you want to move into MTTs, go look for a mtt coach. If you want to grind cash games, go look for cash coaches. If you want to master the 180s, improve your income, and get out of the cycle - come work with me.

There are other operations out there that I am sure that run a tight ship. If you don't work with me, there are of course many other respectable backer/coaches out there. Just think about your goals and what you want to do. Make the right choice. Treat it like business and do business with the right people. Don't align yourself with guys that are substandard, like bogan4life. Don't cheat yourself thinking you got a "good deal".

shenpoker.com is under construction right now. It's ~1week away from launching live. There will be lots of info on the website for you to view. Look for it then and see if you're up for the challenge. Good luck.

Non taken.

Yes, you apologized, nope, those apologies did not change the fact i burnt $ 450 that day, be that because of your lack of skills for teaching cause you where more disturbed about your car problems, be that because of my own fault for being pissed me on you for the above, or whatever.

No, I never called you a ****ty human being, just below what i take as an average one.

I also try to run a propper bussines, but prioritize making my customer happy about his purchase or service taken than my pockets full, you don´t need to be like that.

I hope u got this, if you did not, NVM.

Regards and keep enjoying your success.


José.

Dont take this as an argument on my behalf/Its the internet/people question thing's and i think theres some serious flaw's in how you do thing's / if these things are highlighted + like 90% of the people reading the last 2 pages of this thread think parts of your contract are insane maybe your the one who is being a little shortsighted.



I wish you + your students the best.

What's funny is charging what you do and taking advantage of people who accept your contract all for some coaching that you can reason through by putting in a lot of volume and running hands through wiz. We're talking about 180s here. Get over yourself.

tho

The value of the coaching doesn't interest me, the guy's clearly super successful and apparently a very good coach and the market will determine whether the price is right. I just found the "no job, no full time education" clause really sinister, especially as the vast majority of applicants will be young.

why do u guys care so much on how intense the contract is.. its his business he can do watever he wants.. dont agree on the terms if you think its too much. Theres no ***** fine print, hes not conning ppl and then when they sign the contract its too late. I actually applied with shenpoker around 4 months ago. Screenshared with him for about an hour on 2 occasions. The first time was about the different contracts (depending on how much coaching i wanted/need) and we went through all of them to find one which was best suited for. He was by no means trying to cheat me into signing it or lure me in in anyway.

^ ur a ****, maybe u wudov made some money if u didnt leave the stake

2 months ago-ish when i had u on skype.... u told me u wanted to get staked by shen, i told u it was an intense contract and now u come in here bitching, i ***** told u...
And dont say uve never had a problem with anyone online. Most ppl in our skype chat had a problem with u lol