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Is shoving horrible here? Is shoving horrible here?

08-03-2022 , 03:22 PM
I start in BB with 25BB stack. Blinds are 600/1200/1200ante. I have Qc2d. Utg+1 makes it 2400, folds to button who calls. folds to me and I call getting 6.5:1. This seems standard as I'm short stacked and only care about winning and the price is too good. Folding seems weak. Flop is Tc8c2c. I check, utg+1 checks, btn bets 4000. I call utg+1 calls. Turn is 2h. I check, utg+1 checks. BTN bets 11000. BTN has me and utg+1 covered. Me and utg+1 have identical stacks. I have about 27k left and a fold seems out of the question. A call shows a lot of strength and may get a baby flush to fold in utg+1. I figure the btn has any Ac in hand and will call a shove. If I call I basically have to shove any river but I'll only have 16k into at min 42k pot. So instead I shove here for remaining 27k. I think if I have a full house here I may still shove because a lot of people can't fold flushes.

Utg+1 calls (with his baby flush... I think this should be a fold as he has 27k stack). BTN calls (with nut flush). River is a brick 7s.

Me and utg+1 discuss the hand afterwards and he insists I should have called and then jammed any river... I think he's just saying that because he thinks he's folding his baby flush if I just call turn.

Interested in thoughts as I'm new to tournament strategies. I think cash game I gamble here all day long.
Is shoving horrible here? Quote
08-04-2022 , 11:08 AM
I think, the most debatable street is preflop. Yeah its only a min-raise, so you are getting good odds, but actually your odds are worse, when someone else has called, because now 3 players are fighting for the ante and SB rather than two. So I actually dont think, its weak or tight at all to fold Q2 offsuit, since its a completely unplayable hand. Its not suited, its not connected, and if you hit a Q, you have major kicker issues. So its like a 70 year old prostitute offering you to get laid for 20 dollars. Yes its cheap, but probably you should still say no

Postflop I would have played the same way, you did. You cant fold the flop with bottom pair and a decent flushdraw, and when you turn trips, you are pretty much committed to the pot. Its just a massive setup, and for sure UTG should not fold a flopped flush. Its very difficult to flop a flush, and its almost impossible, someone else flopped a flush as well, even though this time it did actually happen.
Is shoving horrible here? Quote
08-04-2022 , 12:39 PM
Agree with fundiver. One of the big changes in modern poker theory is that we should NOT defend our BB more aggressively when more players enter the pot. Equity realization is quite poor already for big/low unsuited hands; adding a 3d player to the mix makes that problem even worse, since we are more likely to be dominated when we hit a pair.
Is shoving horrible here? Quote
08-04-2022 , 12:40 PM
Under 30 BBs, I fold pre, esp. 3 way.
Is shoving horrible here? Quote
08-05-2022 , 04:01 AM
3-way fold pre for sure. against an early enough position raiser i probably just fold Q2o as well. 8- or 9-handed probably start thinking about defending vs. an EP raise at Q6o or maybe even Q7o.
Is shoving horrible here? Quote
08-05-2022 , 11:15 AM
I don't think I call with Q2o even against 1 opponent pre-flop. Maybe a BTN raise or a SB raise.

I also wouldn't call the flop bet with 3rd best flush draw and bottom pair 3 ways.
Is shoving horrible here? Quote

      
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