Hi guys
Do u like my check OTF?
What do u suggest next?

Full Tilt Poker $14,000 Guarantee No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t30/t60 Blinds - 8 players

MP2: t16100 M = 178.89
CO: t4430 M = 49.22
BTN: t5810 M = 64.56
SB: t10690 M = 118.78
Hero (BB): t2785 M = 30.94
UTG: t2800 M = 31.11
UTG+1: t2425 M = 26.94
MP1: t2765 M = 30.72

Pre Flop: (t90) Hero is BB with 8 8
4 folds, CO calls t60, BTN raises to t200, 1 fold, Hero calls t140, 1 fold

Flop: (t490) 7 8 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets t260, Hero requests TIME, Hero?

I bet. As played, I raise. Too many draws.

I like to lead into the flop here. as mentioned lots of draw potential so i don't mind trying to take it down on the flop but if they happen to have overs we can stack them.

I agree with raising as played it can just reek of strength if opponent is knowledgeable.

TBH I probably fold pre without reads on BTN. The flop I am betting....as played CRAI

folding pre...really? youre better off 3b/folding imo.

8s are the nizzles to a button raise.

anyways, the way to play sets that ive found is never wrong...get money in the pot. pretty big hand afaik.

c/r the flop is fine...call shove or w/e

i guess it doesnt really matter to me what you do on the flop, id like to see a turn card plz unless all the money got in on the flop, which is fine.

Yeah, sorry...meant to say that folding I think is better then calling. I like raise>>>fold>>>call

Areaman and aces_full1963, thanks for answers guys
Since u both agree that 3bet is good could u explain a bit about benefits from 3betting preflop here? Cuz my thoughts are following:

1. Say be 3bet and he shoves, we are obv done.
2. If we 3bet and hope he folds we can do it with any 2 cards against button here IMO
3. If we 3bet say to 600 and he calls, we will have 1300 pot and 2100 behind on the flop OOP holding 88 which is really awkward spot I have no idea how to play on the most flops

Am I wrong somewhere or missed something?

OK, leaving preflop aside I agree with most of u that Ieading OTF is good and checking (as played) is not

Anyway I checked he bet I raised to 720 and he instacalled. T came OTT. What's next?

Pre Flop: (t90) Hero is BB with 8 8
4 folds, CO calls t60, BTN raises to t200, 1 fold, Hero calls t140, 1 fold

Flop: (t490) 7 8 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets t260, Hero requests TIME, Hero raises to t720, BTN calls t460

Turn: (t1930) T (2 players)
Hero ?

check raise should be to like 1k. def lead flop for 360. 3bet pre can be to like 700, then i'd likely shove this flop, and alot of flops for that matter. i dont mind folding pre, calling pre is ehhhhhh. 3bet kinda sucks to tho. i'd say fold>>flat>>>>>3bet (if we do 3bet we are shoving 90% of flops and we are never folding to a preflop shove).

I really don't want to 3bet fold 88 here pre

CR should be bigger but jam turn

get it in obviously
hes not folding a str8 anyway
why did you raise turn?

+1^^

It is not obvious for me at all. Major part of his range here is draw which just hit. So actually I either way ahead now (he may have hand like A9 and now is afraid of straight as much as I do), or he just hit and I way behind (7 outs OTR)

What is the benefit of getting in here?

i wasnt saying i want to 3 bet either, i was just saying its better than folding because 88 is a really strong hand.

i flat mostly here as well and am happy about my decision.

well you have 10 outs on the river if he has a straight and for him to have a straight he needed either to call with the idiot end of the draw with a 6 or a gutshot with a J, or have flopped it but then thats now harder because the T fell and he would be getting it all in on the flop there is also the club draw which still missed and you are not folding if he shoves the turn so jam yourself

i think flop you can donk lead then 3 bet all in or keep leading obv or c/raise, i think its more depdent on opponent than people make out here.

either is fine, just get the money in, we are never folding at any point, turn T is actually not too bad he doesnt have a terrible amount of J's in his range

any chance villian is playing J-J here?

You a have a draw too, 10 outs for a full house or quads and you probably have the best hand now. get the chips in.

OK guys thanks alot. Now lets conclude something

1. After all, I like my call pre here
2. I dont like check OTF any more. I'd lead out with pot size bet and of course call all-in
3. As played OTF, I'd reraise all-in instead of 720
4. As played, I'd jam OTT, thanks to dereds and EeeTeeKid. True, I have outs and it would be hard for villain to call without a Jack which he woudn't have too often

In short words, I just should have played my hand way faster

So what happened in reality: actually I paniced, raised to 800 (dont know why) and called all-in. He showed JJ (rednick, u was right!) and I missed my outs OTR

bah, i think thats hindsight due to the board and the turn card.

you wouldnt be here if the board didnt run out ****ty on you. youd have flopped a set and doubled up and everyone would say nh.

I would donk out for somewhere between 5-6 BB because it actually disguises your made hand and makes it look like you're drawing. You're getting value out of most of his opening range (77, TT+, A9-T, Axcc) and getting coolered by a very small portion (99, TJ). Alot of scare cards can come on the turn that will make it difficult for you to play and get value (6, J, any club).

Luckily you got exactly what you wanted and he Cbet for 1/2 pot. You correctly C/R'd, but your sizing is off. You have ~40 BB effective and ~17BB in the pot after his bet + your call. As played you leave yourself with ~1 PSB (32 BB behind with 32 in the pot).

Making it bigger accomplishes two things:
a) charges the drawing hands more to see the turn
b) makes a turn shove more natural and more callable by combo draws, two pair, etc.

So instead of 3x c/r I would go with the 4x so that you leave yourself ~28 BB behind and ~41 BB in the pot. As played you obviously have to shove the turn because it doesn't actually change much. While TT-JJ gets there, most of his straight draws just paired up because ppl are less likely to call a c/r with the idiot end of the straight.

Thanks a lot man

donking makes sense only because you lost the hand.

granted, thats the worst board in the world but if you but the villian on straight overpairs...or flush draws...w/e

if the board is T83 rainbow, im just saying...you got a crappy board. the turn card is awful. theres nothign you can do. you played the hand fine and there are any number of lines to take with a set, and i dont think that donking is very profitable unless you have history or villian is just super aggro.

youre going to be losing a ton of value from his air range a lot of the time by donking.

not sayin its optimal but wat about weak donkin the flop. 150 bet here gets so many raises(when i read op i thought of small donk lead and put myself in villains shoes and im calling w 2 overs and no draw or a gutter, and raising w all overpairs and open end and flush draws