Most makeup/ How long

[Knut_Hamsun]

Originally Posted by PageUp

Yeah, I think this might be the key to your misunderstanding. It is not hard to make a profit playing MTTs. Not at all.

I really think the only valid critique of backing is the one that has already been mentioned, that it causes players to pursue perceived EV over money. The player that believes themselves to have a 2% roi in $200s can justify playing these instead of $10s where they may have a 200% roi over a significant sample (if such a thing exists). And this can go on for a long time, depending on the backing arrangement, given the variance that would accompany realization of the 2% roi.

One of things that I think has helped me to be profitable is that, playing on my own money, I effectively have a stop-loss. My BR drops enough, I have to drop stakes, as I have no desire to be busto. In dropping stakes, I end up playing lower variance tournaments where I have a higher roi. Thus, my playing the higher stakes, higher variance tournaments is always contingent on a steady stream of money from some level of tournament. Assuming I don't have a pretty disastrous downswing through all BI levels, the worst I can reasonably expect is to reduce my overall earn by filtering it through higher stakes tournaments, since payouts from these can only occur when my BR is flush anyway (since I'm not playing them otherwise). This allows me to keep making money most of the time, though I possibly sacrifice some EV to do so. While this type of process is a facet of some backing arrangements, I usually don't find it to be as rigorously applied as w/ my experience of people playing their own money, nor do I feel it encourages as honest an evaluation of one's roi in various tournaments, as such drop downs are usually mandated by the backer (at least, as far as I have had experience to know).

tbh, it strikes me as strange that what I consider to be the most fundamental skill in playing winning poker, good BR management, is something that so many backees are not forced to practice.

I do it the same way. I think its better than most staking deals.

[jonrubs]

im going to try to play cash games/stake/sngs as a side. It would be dumb for professional MTT players not to stake some people.

[Daut44]

i actually didnt read most of SJCx's posts and just kinda skimmed what was going on and i went off on a tangent myself.

SJCX is just an idiot lol

[pageh656]

Originally Posted by Knut_Hamsun

I do it the same way. I think its better than most staking deals.

how can you compare the way you manage your bankroll to staking deals?
like comparing apples to bananas, then shoving the bananas in your tailpipe

[Knut_Hamsun]

Originally Posted by pageh656

how can you compare the way you manage your bankroll to staking deals?
like comparing apples to bananas, then shoving the bananas in your tailpipe

When i play poker, i have 2 choices. The first is to do as i do, the other is to get staked. So, i dont have a choice, I must compare apples and cheesedoodles.

[SJCX]

Originally Posted by Daut44

i actually didnt read most of SJCx's posts and just kinda skimmed what was going on and i went off on a tangent myself.

SJCX is just an idiot lol

Well you pretty much completely agree with the idiot

[JonHizall]

This thread kinda sucks now.

still a lot of great stuff here.

[Steve Williams]

people saying thread sucks now should notice daut is still dispensing tons of good info.

[CharlieLuv]

mine was like 8K and it took a few weeks to clear

[cking]

Originally Posted by SJCX

Well you pretty much completely agree with the idiot

no, he agrees that there are about 150 people who can grind out 100k a year after splitting with their backer with no real major scores and a 20% ROI. You keep talking about players who win and are still in makeup like as if they were on their own money they would be up and that makeup is holding people down or some such thing.

Now no matter how many times people try and explain this to you in a careful thought out way to keep such an interesting thread on track and be helpful, you continue to ignore them and repeat the same stuff with no basis or fact. So please, consider this, retort with why I am wrong or why being in makeup is some evil that is worse then being down your own money or please stop trolling the thread

[mobills]

This is the email that I received from Steve Williams

From: Steve Williams
To: Michael DeGilio
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 2:18:15 PM
Subject:


I never agreed to share any bonus money. The renegotiated agreement on 4-29-09 was reached under coercion & therefore is void. During the course of said coercion you clearly violated 18 U.S.C. § 875(c). Because this crime was committed against me I have no obligation to fulfill any makeup. The authorities have been notified of the crime. Potential criminal action is pending.



My bonus money now constitutes 100% of the funds in my account because once I bought the milestone bonus, your funds were already lost. You contributed greatly to this loss by coercing the final deal, causing me undue suffering that made it virtually impossible to win. Since you have committed a crime against me, & the funds you sent me are gone I am never sending you any money. I’m not going to budge so you should save time for both of us & never contact me again.


Once we saw that he had redeemed a 4k bonus and cashed it out, we came to the agreement to add it to makeup. At this time, he was close to getting 2k bonus for 200k milestone, as well as havng a partially cleared (20k of 28k FPP) 4k bonus account. He agreed that the stake would continue and all bonus money would be ours as long as he is in makeup or split at the sme rate if he was up. He has since used our stake money to clear the 6k in additional bonuses and claims tht he lost every dime in the account that was ours and has decided to bck out of our deal and keep the 6k for himself. He has now stolen 10k and this needs to be made public.

[J4est]

I'm interested to see what people think about this ^^

[mobills]

The only reason he made a "deal" with us was so we would allow him to continue playing. He told us the 6k in upcoming bonuses were going to be sent right away to us. Clearly he conned us into allowing him to keep the money in the account to continue the stake until he released the money for himself. He's now stolen 10k in bonus money as well as anything he had of ours in his account. His email is also very condescending. Don't bother talking to me ever again? You told the police? Yea, I'm sure you did. Anything I said may have come off as somewhat threatening but it's all opinionated. I never actually made any threats, so good luck wasting your time with the authorities. We will be making sure everyone knows about this to ensure he is never backed by anyone in the future.

[fraabru]

man... i should really be asleep but i had to finish this thread off...

so say there is a horse... and the horse gets way into MU... and the horse can't get out of it.... say the horse was blinded and could no longer see...
or the horse talked his way into a stake and gets deep into MU and will never actually win a tourney...

whatever happens... horse=deep MU and no way to get out....
backer can't sell MU of blind crippled horse...
the backer just eats the loss??

that is my question... what if somebody gets backed and can't pay the MU... do you get sued?
does it go on your credit report?

btw this was a fascinating thread to read...

and daut you seem reeeally smart but... i still agree with your mother about putting something aside...

[SJCX]

Yes the backer eats the loss