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Old 03-01-2009, 07:24 AM   #16
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Re: Latest Push-Bot Charts

jcm,

are you saying the pushbot charts you published (in pdf format) is now outdated? If so, would you be able to make a newly updated one that is all organized into a pdf? I am willing to pay for it. PM me if you're interested.
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Old 03-01-2009, 07:30 AM   #17
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Re: Latest Push-Bot Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeJ View Post
3 2 o 13.8 5.5 3.5 3.2 2.6 2.1 1.8

Am i reading this right? You should shove 5.5M stack or something like 8.25 bbs w/o antes on button with 32o or like 13.5 bbs with like 1/10th bb antes. And 1.8M stack utg? I would def fold 32o UTG and just take my chances in the bb.

Can you post the calling ranges you used for your opponents? That would be extremely helpful.
He probably used a tight calling range for utg push but when you have less than 3 M or so you wont always get that many folds so I definitely fold the 32o and pretty sure its standard to

This chart is great, wish it was a little more readable though
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Old 03-01-2009, 07:31 AM   #18
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Re: Latest Push-Bot Charts

Yea I would throw in a small amount if you come up with a price to organize it
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Old 03-01-2009, 12:03 PM   #19
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Re: Latest Push-Bot Charts

I
will
also
pay
money
if
you
make
it
easy
to
use.
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Old 03-01-2009, 04:30 PM   #20
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Re: Latest Push-Bot Charts

His old charts are awesome, guys. I think his post got edited against his will. THe old charts had 3 different assumed calling ranges you could use for your opponents. I'm sure he has all this worked out again, but wasn't allowed to put it up.

I have been using the old chart for years and make a good amount of money using it. So, yeah, PM me, OP.
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Old 03-01-2009, 04:31 PM   #21
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Re: Latest Push-Bot Charts

With regard to the 99 UTG question, the charts only compare the options of folding or going all in. That's all. So you would probably be better off raising than either of those, but you would certainly be better off shoving than folding.
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Old 03-01-2009, 04:37 PM   #22
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Re: Latest Push-Bot Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeroInBlack View Post
With regard to the 99 UTG question ... but you would certainly be better off shoving than folding.
I dispute that good sir
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Old 03-01-2009, 04:55 PM   #23
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Re: Latest Push-Bot Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi63 View Post
I dispute that good sir
It's hard to get Tens through Aces.
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Old 03-01-2009, 04:57 PM   #24
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Re: Latest Push-Bot Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatteyA28 View Post
I dont think shoving 32o from the SB in the higher level ones is very profitable. Even randoms in the $60s put you on ATC and cal you with QJs or K3o.
you know neither of those hands is a lock against 32o, right? they might fold those hands - or worse ones - or they might call, but just 'cause they hit the "call" button doesn't automatically ship the chips to them.
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Old 03-01-2009, 05:29 PM   #25
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Re: Latest Push-Bot Charts

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Originally Posted by NoahSD View Post
Screw the haters. It was nice of OP to post this.
+1
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Old 03-02-2009, 03:29 PM   #26
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Re: Latest Push-Bot Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
you know neither of those hands is a lock against 32o, right? they might fold those hands - or worse ones - or they might call, but just 'cause they hit the "call" button doesn't automatically ship the chips to them.
You may be right, but that's part of the process. As the user of the charts, it is up to you to make sure the calling range is correct. If the calling range that you think is correct is not represented on the chart, then you have to do the math yourself with pokerstove or something.

You are right, people are calling shoves lighter than they used to.
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Old 03-02-2009, 03:32 PM   #27
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Re: Latest Push-Bot Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi63 View Post
I dispute that good sir
Another issue here is the calling range. Like for example if the assumed calling range is QT+, K9+, 22+, A8+, then that's not really accurate for 99 UTG with an M of 30. The accurate calling range is more like QQ+, AK. And that's it. So it changes the math dramatically. But like was said before, the old charts provided 3 different calling ranges, and it's up to you to figure out which one (or in this case none) applies.
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Old 03-02-2009, 04:35 PM   #28
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Re: Latest Push-Bot Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spatula View Post
the old charts provided 3 different calling ranges, and it's up to you to figure out which one (or in this case none) applies.
this
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Old 03-05-2009, 10:52 AM   #29
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Re: Latest Push-Bot Charts

If someone is willing to host it, I can provide a more user-friendly chart.
I calculated the calling ranges of the opponents based on a study I did of the $60 45-man turbos. What I did was to search hand histories for times when a player pushed for 3 10M in an unopened pot, and was called by someone who was not short stacked. I noted the hands that the player called (not what the player pushed with, but what they called with).
So, for example, here is some data for QQ AA:

AA: 19
KK: 14
QQ: 22
My assumption was that nobody ever folded these hands in this situation. These hands, on average, occur 18 times every 1326 hands. I counted 55 instances of these hands in a particular situation, so I think its a fair assumption that, in the histories that I looked at, a total of 4051 opportunities occurred (55*1326/18) in which someone might have called the preflop pusher. Using that number, its easy to calculate the number of times someone actually called with a particular hand and what that represents in percentages.

For example, each pair should occur 18 times for every 4051 hands. So if I see only 6 pairs of twos, for example, I can assume that the likelihood that someone with twos will call your push is 33% (6/18).

As an example of the calling ranges that I calculated, this is the calling range if you are pushing from the 4th position or later (4 positions from the BB), and your opponent is NOT in the blinds:

JJ-AA; AKs-AQs; AKo: 100%
77-TT; AQo: 78%
55-66; A7s-ATs;ATo-AJo;KQo: 36%
22-44;A5s-A6s;KTs-KQs;QJs;A6o-A9o;KJo-KTo;QJo: 8%

This means that, if your opponent is holding QJo, 92% of the fold he will fold to your push, and 8% of the time he will be an idiot and call you.
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Old 03-05-2009, 04:10 PM   #30
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Re: Latest Push-Bot Charts

jcm, your old charts were incredibly helpful to me before I was comfortable enough to pushbot by feel, and it's nice of you to share this as always. If you do manage to host an updated set of charts, I'd be interested in a copy.
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