This is from the 11 monday 6-max on Stars. We're like 6k each blinds 40-80.Folds to SB who limps, I checked back with KsJc. Flop A38 two spades.He bets 100 into 220 I call.Turn 4 of spades he bets 240 into 418 I call.Turn 2 of clubs he bets 548 into 898 I raises to 2055 with the Ks blocker he calls with J high flush.Thoughts?

why are you continuing after the flop? praying for runner-runner flush?
dump it before the turn ever comes

Ace spades?
Raise pre
Flop is std vs small bet
Otr you should be aware you would come w/ limited amount of flushes so when he 3 barrel on 4card straight board you should be selective w/ your hands and freqs.
I don't like it much in $11 mtt. Would run it quite rarely.

Ace spade yes

Raise pre seems fine, agree that flop call is reasonable. Turn is fine when we pick up equity.

On the river? I guess we have to have some bluffs here and I don't mind using the Ks blocker in theory, but I'm not sure what you're getting to fold when he triple barrels with the flush and straight out there. Especially in this player pool.

Dumping it is weak.

Raise pre and maybe situation is different i.e. c bet flop and villain folds.

As played call river and turn, dont bluff raise river in a limped pot like this - villain can easily show up with strong holdings here.

does that mean that we should never bluffraise the river?

Good argument to check back when SB has 20bb in late stages, but raise at this stack depth
As played, chuck it away otf and get on with the next hand
Bluff raising the river has some logic but its going to fold out his value range too infrequently at this BI

No it doesn't

what would be a better combo to bluff with then if KsJx isnt good enough?

You said never bluff raise river and i took that as never ever. In this particular spot no i wouldnt ever bluff raise the river here - feel like you're trying to catch me out.... If you have something to say just say it in the 1st place instead of probing questions to get to your point.

Definitely got to raise this up pre flop.

As played, I'm ok with everything up till the river. Raising turn is a possibility too.

On the river when picking a bluff raise here, the size should be all in with the Ks. You should also look to have a pair in your hand with it so Ks8x or Ks3x. This way you make it less likely that your opponent has a hand as strong as a flopped set/2p.

I can get behind this. If we are going to jam all of our Ksxx type hands, we probably need to be betting a big enough size to justify it. Still think it's ambitious to think we're getting a triple barrel to fold on this board texture, so I don't like the spot in general.

in your first post you gave the advice that you shouldnt be "raising this river in a limped pot because villain can easily show up with a good hand". first of all, when we are trying to rep a flush in this spot i think its actually beneficial for us that its limped pot but thats a different issue. i think generalizing a spot like this where you should never do x and always do y is just going to end up in missing out on +ev spots. obv sometimes people will show up with good hands and call our bluff, that is part of the game. now greg nailed it pretty hard when selecting which combos are the best to be bluffing with. KsXx is still a reasonable combo to include into a bluffing range because it blocks flushes as you realized yourself. we should be bluffing in this particular spot x% of the time and x is def bigger than zero.

This strikes me as interesting. If villain has a limp in with all his holdings strategy, then he isn't capped. If he's mixing raises/limps and folds then he will have less top pairs as value bets and his value hands will largely be flushes imo. Thoughts?

Just never bluffraise that spot because price on raising is not too good (it needs to work superoften) and you bluffing a range thats almost exclusively value at these stakes

Also you should raise this hand and a ton of other hands pre

yes, that is a good point. how many KsXs hands we have in our range depends on sbs preflop strategy. as there was no info in the op i just assumed that villain will most likely have a mixed strategy with a high limping %age (just an assumption based on population tendencies, could be off) in which case we probably play more KsXs combos as preflop checks from the bb.

now given this, is it rly best for us to have a KsXs combo that blocks 2p as well? if we think villain will shrug b/f 2p in this spot ("cause nobody should ever bluff here") dont we want to unblock 2p hands?

I think we want to use a combo that means villain will likely be weighted towards thinner value bets. I understand what you're saying, because two pair while maybe not his strongest value bet, it still isn't necessarily his thinnest (depending on his pre flop strat). We would however, be blocking a set as well.

Another issue with the hand selection is that because we didn't raise KJo pre flop, it implies we have K2o-KJo in our range here. It seems like OP is down to float all at least all Ks combos on the flop (not that I have a problem with that), but if they all peel turn as well, then you end up with a very high combination of hands that are all K high. You can't jam all of them over a river bet, that will be way way way too many combos as bluffs. So going back to using a pair + Ks(Ks8x being 3), not only does it block some of his value bets, it also ensures we select an appropriate number of combos to bluff with giving us a good value to bluff ratio.

valid points, rly good post, thx!

yes it makes sense

to be continued.... ))

I think maybe you can't run this bluff readless.
Anyway I don't care for flat flop, flat turn, raise river as a bluff line. Without any previous aggression, raising a river that doesn't change things will catch a lot of hero calls from villain. In villains position and against that line, I'd be making a crying call with a lot less than he had.

Yeah but not always we can allow ourselves this freedom in bluff raise range construction.
its clear pair+blocker has higher equity than naked blocker but it also makes pair+blocker better bluffcatcher and the narrower range villain value bet the more releveant it becomes.
If we`re going to just fold worse bluff raise candidates and turn good bluffcatachers in a bluff we`ll be struggling to reach MDF (assuming we need to) and will invite villain to overbluff badly.

I guess what you`re saying is relevant when villain is doing something wrong (like value bet too thin in unappropriate spot) then we will have very wide value raise range which would also allow us to bluffraise a lot and be less concerned w/ hand selection.

MDF ?

I thought we weren't worrying about MDF and GTO at low stakes anymore?

I think this jamming over bet/bet/bet is about the strongest line you can take. It implies you trapped your opponent, let him barrel his strongest hands and still go ahead and raise.

I'm can't think of what hands I would donk the flop and turn with that I would bet-fold on the river, except a bluff of my own. I wouldn't need a flush to make a crying call.