Cheating accepted in Partouche Poker Tour (AND I WOULD'VE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT TOO)

[Mc Tout]

Give it a rest Marty, Shataaarrr is a French army officer using standard evasion tactics.

In all seriousness, where else in the world could something like this (thread is about) happen?

[muckducks]

Hey Mickey,

Firstly it was a pleasure to meet you this trip. I'd like to say that I think you've done a very good job of outlining the facts of what happened here in Cannes. All I can say is that my experience in Cannes has been a strange one. I can't say I've ever felt overtly cheated since I've been here. But, there have been numerous instances where I have questioned the integrity of what has been going on around me. For most of day 1 some spanish girl's (who by the way seemed like a very nice person) coach was standing directly behind me and it was pretty clear he was trying to look at my cards. I heard countless people tell stories (including my roommate) about people marking cards, feeling that their stack should be larger than it was, or officials just clearly ruling in the favour of French players.

There are a lot of great things about where I am right now. But when I re-access whether or not I want to come back next year the lack of integrity shown here may outweigh how fishy the French players are (LOL).

That is all I have to say.

[AMT]

Originally Posted by martymc1

@Shataarr.

first you say nobody understands English in France, so i posted so simple facts that you have not disputed (wow a first for me), and somehow you feel posting a silly picture or calling me paranoid changes those facts.

wrong.

I think this entire thing is somewhat of a derailment, but I've got to agree with Shataarr here. You bring in wikipedia sources as if they are the end all be all of your arguments. Just because they study it in school doesn't mean they are well versed in speaking or understanding the language. I have learned and spoken another foreign language for over a decade and I would still not consider myself fluent by any stretch. Imagine how it is for someone who gets a few years worth of classroom time as part of some school requirement. It rarely translates into someone knowing the language well enough to speak and understand fluently or even somewhat thoroughly, and I've heard from countless sources that, outside of major cities and tourist areas, you may have trouble in Southern France finding fluent english speakers. It's still like this in many parts of the world, believe it or not, and quoting some meaningless "but they do teach English in French schools and therefore you're wrong about people not speaking english" statistical implication really doesn't do a whole lot to change that, IMO.

[2010monster]

Originally Posted by highlandfox

Last edited by pierrot_63_97; Today at 05:02 AM. Reason: in b4 alekhine saying french are morons

They are excellent filmmakers, poets, and painters.

Some of them can cook and most seem pretty good at eating.

[NeverScaredB]

This thread isn't about French stereotypes or how awful French people are at poker or how ****ty they treat you when you go there. It's about a terribly (and maybe shadily) run poker tournament. How ****ing hard is it for you guys to separate the two? Saying the treatment of English speakers in this poker tournament is like the treatment English speaks receive elsewhere in France is racist, and it's irrelevant to the thread even if it's true.

[THAY3R]

Originally Posted by mustacchione

among other things the Floorman spoke English very well ... and said we had to speak French because the tournament was in France. unreal.

Bump since you guys clearly don't feel like reading the thread.

Nationalism and xenophobia are both retarded, stop defending french people just because they're french and stop hating on french people just because they are french. Every person is different and they do not represent a whole class of people nor should they, let's concentrate on the incompetence/cheating of the tournament staff and the players they have helped cheat.

[Penny_Black]

At last some sensible stuff itt.

Iyam what happened in the tourney can be considered as cheating and should be widely exposed.
It is plain favouritism and should not be tolerated. I do not have the feeling that this is incompetence but that it has more to do with French collusion and favouritism. Incompetence can be corrected by floor rulings and it did not happen. Hence, it it a serious breach in Poker rules and a clear case of cheating.
I have seen it happen on numerous occasions. I have seen French players show their cards to their neighbours and then muck without having the cards exposed, I have seen most of the stuff that has been exposed itt etc. And when you point it out French randoms will indeed look surprised...
Regarding the French/English speaking tourney staff, I must say that most French people cannot speak any other language properly. I'd say that a mere 20% of educated people can handle a discussion in English.
However as THIS Poker tournament was advertised in English in order to attract more players, to me, it is obvious that a good part of the staff should be able to speak English and that French should be banned from the tables.

[grindplz]

Originally Posted by Shataarrr

I. ( i heard several times some americans saying things like " retarded french donk" between themselves at the table thinking noone was understanding what they were saying ... )

Originally Posted by Shataarrr

I agree with u, in High Buy-in tournament like this, the floorman should speak english tht's just obvious, but one bad thing in france is that most off people don't understand english at all, maybe that's why you had bad experiences down here, believe me it's not like people don't want to help you, they just don't understand a word of what you're saying lol

Oic. Your english seems pretty good. I'd hope you'd have the decency to help out an english speaking person who was unable to tell their side of the story because the floor doesnt understand english. Heck apparently most people understand english and it would seem like common courtesy and the right act as a poker player to see that the game is ran fairly even if the hand doesnt involve you. Unfortunately instead among a lot of French people I saw a team type mentality in which they stuck together and were ok cheating other players out of equity by pretending to not speak the english language / be willing to help other french people but not foreigners.

I mean come on its not about france sucking or french people being doosh's its about the favoritism shown by the floor and seemingly lack of ethics of many French players who simply sat on the sidelines eager to pick up additional EV at the expense of others being cheated. I struggle to understand how Michael Binger was the only person willing to stand up for this Italian kid as he was blatantly cheated out of thousands of dollars because he was unable to convey his opinion in french seeing as any ethical human would put Nationalism, racism and all of this other nonsense aside and help the correct decision be made out of respect for the game and fair play.



And yea the real issue here is that

this casino was not fit to run a 300$ 200 person tourney and clearly no where near capable of running a 750 person 8500 euro event.

Random examples would be.

1. Lack of security cameras
2. Uneducated floor people
3. Favoritism towards French players
4. Apparently no floor people speaking english even though english was one of two allowed languages in this event. (I thought some did, this goes along with the general rudeness I encountered)
5. Poorly structured and not well thought out.(overly long days)
6. MAJOR MAJOR issue with marked cards. I'd say over my 10 hrs of play 10-15 cards had to be replaced.


In the end these issues led to some decisions that left a lot of foreign players who are used to a higher standard with a sour taste in their mouths. Especially after paying such a high vig and when a bunch of decisions are made in french players favor people are going to be pissed and lash out at the country it was hosted in. I've really only been to france this one time and i'd say based off my experience in the casino the majority of french locals I met were rude, unethical and bad at poker. Is it an unfair bias, yea but thats what happens when a good part of your sample size is handful of days inside a casino playing what was played.

[p3rc4]

[Shataarrr]

Originally Posted by grindplz

Oic. Your english seems pretty good. I'd hope you'd have the decency to help out an english speaking person ect ect

Well i'm not here to defend france or french people lol and i really don't give a fuuuu of nationalism or other retarded stuf like that and let's be clear for me Partouche tournaments are huge shiiits i play it because Cannes is not so far from where i live.

but just to say my point of view,
like everywhere else on the planet there are stupid and rude people as well as good & nice people and i think you're exagerate a lot, personnaly i did'nt see ANYTHING at my tables i could call " cheating " really nothing ... and favoritism towards french player neither, i said AT MY TABLES huh... ( ok maybe some " borderlines " discussions at the end of a hand but nothing as collusion and honesly most of players are so bad that even if u give them an info about another player they won't be abble to use it to win chips haha ) it it's seems there's been some problems for some foreigners at some tables and i'm really desapointed for them if it's true but don't prentend that if you're a foreigner in this tournament you have -20% ev less than french people because that's not true.

btw most of foreigners i've talked with where happy to be here and where enjoying the tournament ...

[smokrokflock]

great op and +1 to everything thay3r said. All the people randomly spewing hate are not helping out Mickey or the other individuals who have legitimate grievances.

[Fandreastico]

Originally Posted by Shataarrr

I played the Partouche Main event and busted yesterday ,
i'm really sorry off what op said but i must agree on the fact that the organisation of the tournament is realy bad. But u americans have to realise that poker is quite new in france it's not like in US where this game is played since decades, it explains the " retarded " behaviors of some french players and the bad quality off some floorman, poker is just quite a new game for most of frech people, so deal with it and adapt yourself.

But one thing is funny with most off u americans ( i'm french ) you think that all the world should be like the usa ... lol@ the floorman speaks in french , you are in France lol, what language do you expect them to speak ??? when I go to the usa I try to speak your language, when you come here you act like like you're at home .. but u're not. ( i heard several times some americans saying things like " retarded french donk" between themselves at the table thinking noone was understanding what they were saying ... )

I live in south off France and americans are received friendly when they come here so lol@so many haters ... u are just ignorants, don't ask why most off the world hates u after that ...

sorry for my english

So what ure saying is that there should be no live tourney in France before the Casino(Partouche staff know the rules?

To me it seems absolutely absurd that they arrange such a big tourney without even educate the staff/officials - that WILL take BIG desicions - to know the basic rules of the game. SO SICK! UNREAL SICK!
To me it seems pretty obvious that some of the stories comes from cheating and some from bad educated staff/officials. This isnt the first year they arrange this, so they had PLENTY of time to learn the rules.
So what ure saying, to me, just sounds like an awful excuse cause ure really emberrased to be french when these stories comes out - and then U bring USA and americans into this WTF....

to hoste a poker tourney this big u really have to be well prepared in all points! If ure not u really shouldn´t host it - just that simple.

[Fandreastico]

Originally Posted by no

Thinkin the french (or any other nationality) wont help u cause theyre rude or unhelpful is beyond stupidity, they ARE generaly bad in english.

Have countless episodes trying to help french tourists and its often not that easy.

well that just makes it easier not to come back.
In the future all international players have to learn french to play there and also be aware that the rules of poker in general is not like in the rest of the world.

[pktsfullofhope]

The French are tight... They stick together. If you're in a poker table dispute with a Local Frenchman, in France, with a French floor man, in a French tournament... you most likely are a dog for a favorable floor man ruling despite what happened.

I played this event last year and took 5th. Not only was I shocked at some of the rulings I saw during the tournament, I couldn't believe the lack of poker/English experience of some of the high ranking floor man/rules officials.

If you watch video of the final table you will see first hand, for lack of a better word collusion. The two French guys who took 1st and 2nd were buddies and obviously swapping action. Fine, great, people swap action all the time. However when you are going deep in a tournament, and you have a financial interest in another player at a shorthanded table, awkward spots like this one happen...... During the final table I think like 6 handed at this point they get into a blind battle with each other. They are both relatively shallow because it's late in the tourny. I'm Pretty sure the hand went as follows although it was last Nov. Guy raises AK from SB into his buddy. His buddy from the big blind who is a rather aggressive French player looks at the other French guy kinda funny, then reraises his AA. The initial French guy has a 100% standard ship with AK here I was thinking at the time with stacksizes. Yet he folds quickly for such a decision, and the hand is over. You mean to tell me that guy isn't jamming on me or anyone else at the table in the BB lightspeed in this same spot? Obviously the floor man and other players at the table didn't see the cards at the time so it's hard to stop such events.

The sad truth is poker attracts a lot of characters with low ethics and morals. Not only poker but money. A lot of people do a lot of things for money. Keep your head on a swivel and try to do the right thing.

If I were in the same situation at a final table as the two Frenchmen in my story, I don't know what I'd do with AK. I'd probably shove it.... but who knows. Just felt like this thread would enjoy another rant about PPT.



GL

[Shataarrr]

For those interested there's a livestream of the event with phil laak at the table
22 players left

1.300.000 euros 4TW

http://www.partouchepokertour.com/si...edias/PPTLive/

final table is in november