Alleged chatlog between Sorel and thorladen

[nyc_bullets]

Originally Posted by J_HasTheNuts

I think posting here and then going over the details on the pokercast is a better line, Shaun.

+1

dont leave the community hangin!

[hehateme315]

Originally Posted by nyc_bullets

+1

dont leave the community hangin!

yea couldnt agree more

[eatSfrishSfrieS]

Originally Posted by nyc_bullets

+1

dont leave the community hangin!

+3

[LostOstrich]

Originally Posted by J_HasTheNuts

I think posting here and then going over the details on the pokercast is a better line, Shaun.

Can we get DeebSpellCheck on standby plz

[Hoopie1]

Originally Posted by LostOstrich

Can we get DeebSpellCheck on standby plz

[ActionJeff]

Originally Posted by fire_sqaud

over on p5's someone said that it's most likely true because of the mention about some incident that occured in europe. they said very few people knew about it. whatever it was.

Just jumping in to disagree. I'd be surprised if there were many online regs on the euro tourney circuit who HADN'T heard about said "incident".

[Rusemandingo]

I don't know any of the principals in this, and am basing my opinion mostly on what has been posted ITT. From reading Thor's post, he seems to be claiming that he at least discussed this venture with Sorel. The fact that he would even entertain it for a second seems to undermine what Roman is saying about his high morals and leaving rooms when seated at the same table as an IRL friends in the same room. That's prob why Roman is saying he doesnt think the entire convo is true.

So if he's claiming the convo is partially forged, howso? You think the part upto when sorel introduces the plan is real, and everything after that is just made up?

I have a feeling that short statement from Thor is the only comment he's gonna have. i think he really needs to answer if that convo is completely real, and if so, when and why he decided not to go through with this, if he in fact didnt.

**** like this really sucks for Poker, especially when it seems we're coming so close to government acceptance. Even if this does turn into a huge scandal, I don't know it would be big enough to enter into the debate over the bill. At least I hope not.

[suciu]

Originally Posted by Double Ice

This type of witchhunt happens every year

There is no one-player-to-a-hand-rule, so ghosting is completely legal. And even if it isn't, being on the phone is completely undetectable anyways.

Well, gotomyPC or w.e isn't legal, but being on the phone is legal

Alot of what people say is just hate at ghosting, but the reality is, ghosting will always happen and there is no way to stop it

From a larger perspective, sites only care inasmuch that the potential PR issue may affect their bottom line. All they want is rake, so from that perspective, they may even secretly encourage ghosting as it lets breakeven-ish horses rise towards paying more rake.

My opinion, (and I realize it is the minority opinion), is that online poker is like the wild west, completely unregulated and with no rules. Every man for themselves. For example, if you play full ring PLO, you run the risk of getting cheated. If you play a tournament, you run the risk that some random is being ghosted. As much as sites would like to continue the idea that there are standards, there really isn't -- it's only something propped up in their bottom line interest.

Obviously, sites should continue to try to have standards and maintain them. But ghosting is ultimately undetectable, and ultimately, someone that buys in to a tournament is free to make whatever decisions they want. Because of how I feel about the state of online poker and ghosting in particular, I cannot condemn someone for ghosting or ghosting-equivalent activities, and as such I still have the utmost respect for Sorel and everything he has accomplished.

Edit: This does not imply that I don't think that sites should go after ghosters/MA'ers -- rather, sites are free to do whatever they want.

You seem pretty darn smart

[ezdonkey]

There's some inconsistency of Sorel's usage of "you" & "u" and "your" & "ur" in the chat log.

Someone who has talked a lot to Sorel in MSN should check if he uses those words mixed up. If not, then the log might be faked.

(fwiw, didn't read anything else except OP in the thread)

Obligatory pic for the Nancy Drew post

[Aguskb]

Originally Posted by ezdonkey

There's some inconsistency of Sorel's usage of "you" & "u" and "your" & "ur" in the chat log.

Someone who has talked a lot to Sorel in MSN should check if he uses those words mixed up. If not, then the log might be faked.

(fwiw, didn't read anything else except OP in the thread)

Obligatory pic for the Nancy Drew post

i know i randomly will use a "u, your, ur, you" etc on aim so i dont think thats enough proof to come to any type of conclusion

[BKiCe]

Originally Posted by shaundeeb

I was asked to come on pokercast to talk about it will go over the details there. I will follow up with a post after as well

based on how serious you made it sound in your original post on the subject, don't you think it's pretty irresponsible to not be releasing whatever info you have as soon as possible? i can't think of a single reason you would wait this long, or decide to go on the podcast to disclose whatever is going on, rather than alerting the community as soon as possible.

[33mikemcg]

Originally Posted by BKiCe

based on how serious you made it sound in your original post on the subject, don't you think it's pretty irresponsible to not be releasing whatever info you have as soon as possible? i can't think of a single reason you would wait this long, or decide to go on the podcast to disclose whatever is going on, rather than alerting the community as soon as possible.

I have to agree with Bkice here. This is not a TV show where you need to tease to keep viewers. I think the info needs to be brought forth. Plus I am almost out of popcorn.

[jiggybluff]

cool thread/just wasted 30 mins reading last 2 pages

[lilOUmikey]

Originally Posted by BKiCe

based on how serious you made it sound in your original post on the subject, don't you think it's pretty irresponsible to not be releasing whatever info you have as soon as possible? i can't think of a single reason you would wait this long, or decide to go on the podcast to disclose whatever is going on, rather than alerting the community as soon as possible.

+1 especially with WCOOP around the corner

[Imper1um]

I'm in Cyprus at the moment trying to enjoy the last day of my vacation.

The fact is, I really don't owe anyone a response, I was basically shunned out of the 2+2 community a long time ago and unlike others who have made huge efforts and hired PR to repair their damaged rep's I have just learned to accept it and not really care what people who don't know me think. I REALLY wish I cared more what you guys think, I really do. NOBODY in the history of online poker has had their reputation unfairly tainted more than I have. That's a fact.* I have had to accept that it's human nature to be jealous of ones success and it's only natural to try to bring them down to your level after they make one mistake. Well, I'm really sorry to all the members of this forum who are losing players and need*something or someone to blame. The truth is, your just not very good at poker.


I will address this matter for two reasons. One to clear the names of the people mentioned in the conversation and two, because there are actually people I know and respect who are curious about whether or not this conversation did in fact take place.

The conversation in question contains bits and pieces of information from several conversations I've had with Thorladen and others over the course of about a year.

It was quite a while ago, but if I had to guess I would say the conversations occurred from 2008 to 2009 while I was sponsored by Betfair.

Late last year, I got a message from the extortionist threatening to release what he had fabricated if I didn't send him money online. I chose to completely ignore the threats.* Whoever gained access to my PC or MSN chat conversation history took bits and pieces of things I've spoke about through MSN and cleverly conjured the information he had with information he completely fabricated in an attempt to try and incriminate me if I didn't respond to his demands. I didn't think that much of it at the time since I thought if I ignored the threats and his attempt to extort me he would have no reason to post it. But now that he has,* I'm currently in the process of trying to find out who these people are and talking to my lawyer about suing them for libel and defamation of character.

As far as Chris and Adi go, they were my horses about 2 years ago and neither of them have ever been involved in any shady activity that I know of. They are both good guys and both very trustworthy/loyal, so much so that I allowed both of them to calculate their own makeup.

Re: Europe, Yes I was cheated out of a ton of money. The first time it happened was actually before the FTP incident occurred. Other than that it's really nobodies business I'm not here to satisfy anyone's curiosity. I made the people who needed to be aware of what happened aware and that's all I felt morally obliged to do. Unfortunately, every time I do the right thing by telling people who were thinking about playing the guy what happened, the story spreads and it get's into the hands of serial gossipers / storytellers like Shaun Deeb who post broken telephone interpretations on public forums.* That's his prerogative but one things for sure Shaun's far better at spreading 8th handed information then he ever will be at poker.** You guys want to know why people are out to get me ? Well I guess this is why. Because I say what's on my mind and I guess sometimes I offend players who the idiots on this forum worship like gods.


In your elaborate fantasies you want to believe that I'm traveling the world playing 10k+ buyin's and during my off-time I'm putting 6 accounts in $200 online tournaments. Get real!* I probably play online tournaments on average once every 2-3 weeks. The main reason I've almost completely stopped playing online was to get away from the exact bull**** I'm dealing with right now.

I strongly dislike coming on internet forums to read unfair, untrue, libelous BS judgements about my character. The only people who have the right to attack my character are the ones who know me well personally and I don't think anyone who's posted thus far does. I don't blame them. As soon as anyone posts anything to defend me they get verbally attacked and accused of "sticking up for a cheater".

On a side note I don't think its fair for 2p2 admins to have kept this thread up and thereby force me to make a response defending myself from an alleged msn conversation that could have easily been fabricated especially when the op has 0 proof. Imo I think that's very irrespnsible but I'm sure most of you would disagree. After all, it isn't your integrity being questioned its mine.

There are serious things that I'd like to address in a subsequent thread that I've been thinking about posting for a long time, I'm not sure whether or not I'll post it because I truly don't owe anyone here explanations about anything I do. But I'll give it some serious thought.