sup bud beating highstakes doesnt mean ur good enough that highstakes are worth ur time

Next time fold pre

Stop being a ****wit jjyykk raised valid points about checking on your horses life stability etc obviously he's not endorsing stealing from backers. Also lol at lots of terrible regs criticising jjyykk's playing abilities in the thread when they are much worse at poker than him.

Derail aside, @Zima i'm interested in hearing your side of the Slavouchka story. I've heard his side, and it seems like you drastically overreacted if he wasn't lying and did immediately replace all money in the account after playing games he wasn't meant to play. That said, i've only heard his side of the story. I'd like to hear your side so I have the full story and can avoid financial ties with him if it didn't go down the way he said it did.

slavouchka story: we both agreed to arbitration and then when the arbitrators sided with me, he didnt want to do it. the arbitrators were shaniac and slevin-up (i believe). i will try and find the skype log and send it over to you, but it was a group chat and not sure i have it saved. the arbitrators agreed my stance was a bit harsh and although i was correct to lay claim to all the MU (according to the contract), they felt a buyout would be in order. i agreed with this and said i would take some %, but slavouchka said he didnt want to pay a dime.

pretty sure he never replaced the money, but not entirely confident on that fact. i do know he was playing games he wasnt supposed to time after time, which was pretty annoying (and against the contract). After so many times, what more can i do?

Yeah I was mostly curious to hear the full story. Obviously if he never replaced the money then it's an entirely different story to him immediately replacing the money which would make the difference of whether I viewed him as a scammer or just an idiot. Will be interesting to read the full stories on everyone on the list once you have time to post them.

this.

nice thread zima. post more than one story per month though

Just to clarify I meant he's did something idiotic for not playing games cleared on the stake, but if immediately he replaced the money I don't see how this makes him a scammer at all, @Zima you really need to prove your case if you're going to publicly call someone a scammer.

Def need to post more than one story a month after making a list of names public though it's pretty gross to post a list of names and say 'i'll post the proof later'

all of this

Thank you Zima. Your efforts and information is appreciated, and I truly wish you all the success in the world in reclaiming your losses from those that stole from you.

raising valid points? hes raising the point that diego is not a scumbag which is totally wrong. as he admitted himself. so shut the **** up.

Jae is a smart guy and capable of realizing that he was wrong in that matter. Neither the german dolt club nor any kind of flaming regarding his game is necessary.

Fold.

Why are you so angry? I never admitted that thinking Diego is not a scumbag is totally wrong. In fact it's the exact opposite. It would actually take a whole lot of additional evidence (not provided in the OP) to come to the conclusion that Diego is a scumbag.

In fact, let's say there is a law that says sending cashouts to friends without the backer's knowledge is automatically considered theft. If Diego's case was tried, I feel like Diego has introduced so much good will and prior evidence of non-scumminess with Zima and Elio that he would be found not guilty.

If it went straight from "hey your audits don't line up" to "I have to drop you from the stake and out you on 2+2" without even a Skype call or long conversation.. there's a definite problem there.

Add up the good will Diego should have generated (in terms of Zima's expectation). Chopping 170k + buying out the 7k makeup in full alone should give Diego more leeway than that.

So my apology is based on potential missing information and chiming in with something where Zima knows way more facts than me.

Can we all just agree there are varying degrees of scumminess? Maybe that human beings all make mistakes, this is a tough profession, and we can give leeway to people especially when they are ignorant of the consequences of their actions (not idiot ignorant, just slightly ignorant)?

To me, some of the scummiest behavior is like the guy who kept asking for transfers through facebook and skype, knowing he was stealing from them outright. Or the guy who finds weaker players in deep runs over Skype and tries to freeroll a % from them for ghosting.

We're really throwing the guy who sent back 170k, warm messages of love and support, and bought his makeup out in full before leaving into that scum boat? Even if his dad really did die, he really was broke, and he thought he could play his way out of any cashouts he had to make to feed himself? (again I don't know if he was making all this up or not, if he was he is obviously a scumbag).

It's so absurd to me that 80% of the players in this thread are backed or were backed and they are flaming a staked Brazilian who speaks poor English. A horse who could have made an honest mistake is now the worst scum/ignorant rap idiot. It's kind of like ghetto people in the hood hating on each other and holding each other down rather than hating on the rich men squeezing the neighborhood.

So guy works for a governmental bank for x years and pays 170k in taxes, always good at his job, dad dies, no gf, hobbyrap thing doesnt workout either, starts giving away bank's money to friends. thief?

^ wat

you still get paid (biweekly?) at a bank

zimas already said hes outed them previously, he doesn't owe this thread to anyone. should be less overall hate towards his approach, since no one else has done this on a grand scale and its only their money to be recovered. lotta posts here just seem so extreme..

Seriously? This **** goes on? Jeeez. Time for me to find another game. I'm obviously just grist for the mill.

Loved the line regarding binary thinking though, despite not agreeing with its context jjyykk. As Asjbaaaf pointed out, Zima demonstrated plenty of support to diego. Anyway 'binary thinking' is something I'm gonna slip into a conversation at work. Sophisticated dialectic. Nuanced.


(uh, does this post make me a troll? just askin'. not tryin' to be one. delete if you must. after all i'm just a sexagenarian nobody)

^ some guy named danloulou was doing this, it's fairly well documented in the other thread (BOO! there's a ghost at my FT)

mercifully, it appears that he wasn't very good at it and didn't make much $ off it

lol at this thread... can't believe a guy like jae is getting personally attacked for basically trying to ask people to look at this possible 'scamming' from all other angles and that possibly the most obvious answer isn't the correct one--isnt the entire point of poker to get away from concrete absolutes and attempt to try to find truth in a somewhat obscure and hazy place?

only thing that is dissapointing in jae's comments in this thread is the fact that he even bothers address trollbox morons talking **** about his game, game selection, etc.

and to the idiots that wonder why people get backed despite being able to beat the game...realize that MTTs and poker players are not robots that are capable of just playing the same game and that psychology and emotions accompanying it are a large part of whether or not we are playing optimally. can't even believe i have to explain this basic concept.

maybe jae wasn't being clear in his original post but to me i read it as more of a criticism on how zima handles his stable. he clearly has little regard for the emotional well being or happiness of his horses, he treats every single player as a walmart employee, their worth is only tied to how much money they can make him. do people not realize this is going to create a scenario where he is going to be scammed more often? if you commodify your employees, they will commodify you as well.

and to all you circlejerkers who think that zima is a hero for outing these scammers, learn to read between the ****ing lines. he would never bother doing any of this **** if it didnt benefit him and elio in some way or another, whether it is trying to get money owed to him back, or creating fear equity so that he's less likely to get scammed in the future. but to some of you who imply that he is doing a selfless service to the community, jesus christ...i garauntee you he doesn't give a **** about any other backers or the backing community in general so long as he gets his $... which is actually perfectly fine and i have no problems with, but to be delusional enough to put him on a pedestal for this indicates developmental problems and/or a learning disability

p.s. i too thought evidence to prove that he is a 'scumbag' was lacking. yes what he did was clearly in violation of a backer/staker relationship, but for the purposes of this thread and a 2p2 style 'credit system' i absolutely do think intentions/ignorance is an important process of 'due diligence'.

I like you.

Emotions seem to be running pretty high ITT. This thread is simply a place for Zima to post instances in which people violated the contracts they signed with him, nothing more. Nobody has ever been coerced into signing a contract with Elio/Zima, and if they drive a tough bargain, so do many employers in the real world. You are of course allowed to form whatever opinion you want about the cases he has posted, but I think a lot of the posts calling Zima out are a bit off base. Whatever his reasons for posting the thread, more information is a good thing when we're dealing with a market like this.

I disagree with this, and let me explain. I think what people like Jae and I are trying to say is that this information on its own is pretty incomplete. As a potential backer, of course violating contracts would be important information, but context and other information surrounding that is important too. This is how it works in a court of law.

It appears to me, out of zima's own cherry picked chat logs, that there was a serious language barrier divide and zima did nothing to try to address those concerns.

Nobody is disputing this, and maybe this is not a thread to address the criticisms in zima's methods. but i personally think that if i ran a company like a sweatshop, i'd also be prepared for a little worker revolt. the term 'scumbag' imo should be a word that consider more than just the breakage of contacts. it should refer to someoens character, and whether or not they are liekly to reapeat such a violation. THAT is the true nature of what these threads are supposed to be about, not just a binary yes or no this guy broke the rules therefore he is a scumbag.

If you ran a sweatshop that offered four figure loans and indefinite sabbaticals following the death of a relative you'd have Fortune 500 employees fighting one another for the privilege of working for you.

I agree with you in that the case is somewhat more nuanced than "guy is a scumbag." However, it is pretty clear that he violated the terms of his contract, and must now suffer the consequences, one of which was a public outing on 2 plus 2.

Perhaps Zima shouldn't be throwing around "thief" and "scumbag" so liberally, but I definitely think he should be posting his side of the story in some sort of thread like this.

I also think Zima is being held to a bit of unfair standard here. There is a reason his operation is so successful and able to back so many people, and it's because they generally take a tough line and don't let things get in the way of business (at least that's my perception). That's something Diego should have been aware of going in, and if he didn't like it, there are many other stables out there.

perhaps we philosophically disagree with the point of 'outing', which is completely fair. i had always believed it was to be a type of 'credit rating system' to warn potential future backers that a player is unreliable, etc.

i think you are implying that the point is to punish the offending perpetrator, which i think is definitely something that needs to happen, but should be more of a residual consequence of the true intended purpose. maybe i am being too idealistic.

agreed, but i dont really believe that 'any information' is 'good information' particularly if it has been presented within the lense and biases of those who were offended upon. i'm not saying zima is anyway dishonest, but he like any HUMAN BEING is prone to misunderstanding or misinterpreting another persons intentions or even the true objective of what these threads are supposed to accomplish.

i am not disputing his business model or whether or not his actions are profitable. Elio is a great player, and im sure many people would put up with Zima's mangerial skills to acquire knowledge from such a talent. to be honest, this was not the place for me to voice my disdain for the way he treats his horses. but in this instance i think it isn't unreasonble to think there is a POSSIBILITY that diego misunderstood the nature of the terms or agreement because he isn't the greatest at english. with the information presented to us, it is clear that zima did nothing to address these issues.

maybe i am referring to the way i think things should BE vs the way they are now.


and to anyone who took my facetious use of the term 'sweatshop' literally, well, i'd start by looking up the word facetious in the dictionary because i doubt you know what it means.