Why don't you just regularly audit your horses zima? Obviously it requires some additional work but besides keeping your horses honest it also gives you guys a clearer picture of what's working and what's not for each individual horse.

jjyykk should just ask his backer what he would think about him sending money to friends accounts to cash it out. bet hed be happy and wouldnt consider it stealing.

Pretty much a complete list of all the guys who have stolen/whatever from us

will be formated as p5s name/stars name

amcinnes23---amcinnes23
Bonsau---Little Haxor
BudinBudin---BUDINBUDIN on FTP
Chris777444---Chris777444
Clyro---crussty on FTP
Completedonk---thematadorcc (bought USA FTP money from him, and he doesnt have it)
creg_allenki---Creg_Allenki
Diegokeep---diegokeep
Frowdiggs22---frowdiggs22 (USA player, who has since paid back what he stole)
Henchness24---henchness244 (dean23price brother. he most likely has another account or stopped playing, hard to tell)
itsproblem---tune_007
nrichardt---nrichardt, but he is playing on a dif name on stars now, or so i heard...(Maphack0r)
OMGsDALES---OMGsDALES
qrgitu---qrgitu
pokerkid2308---FTP name is pokerkid2308
Sircrafty---kappustahead
slavouchka---slavouchka
tokyo09---tokyo09
unclephil---bigjbecker (there is a big thread on 2p2 about this one)
Chancemc---chancemc
dont know p5s name---bdbeatski21

Also, this doesnt include any of the guys we have dropped who owe us loans (and have made no attempt to pay back in 99% of the cases)


there are more, but my old records are all on a different computer in storage. The people who arent listed, are very small SNG guys who probably arent in poker anymore.

also, there are other guys who i wouldnt ever stake again, but they didnt steal money from us. obv any backer is welcome to PM me and ask about that list, but not sure they should be posted in a thread for the public to see.

thought the list would be longer

Curious what your +/- is over those 21 names?

wont be getting into specific numbers in this thread

That tune kid scammed like every single stable on this planet it seems. :P

Disclaimer: If Diego did actually did intend to steal in a scummy manner and was aware of what he was doing, I obviously retract all of these hypothetical reads and apologize to Zima in full.

Dear Marc, you can cut the passive aggressive bs, especially with topics you know nothing about. I've actually cashed out tens of thousands of dollars in 2012 and 2014, including a wire transfer to my parents' business from the man himself. I mean obviously we were in communication the whole time and had a good working relationship with a lot of goodwill. By that time I had sent him a lot of profits so there was trust and friendship. But that's kind of my point. That kind of exchange led to me sticking around even longer, chopping even more SCOOP profits in 2013, then signing back up in 2014 because of loyalty and love.

I do feel I'm being a little utopian/idealistic/naive but I don't think backing relationships should just be pure financial. I think both parties owe it to each other to actually try to care about each other's well-being and life circumstances, even due to just economical reasons like trying to maximize profit. Having said that I do have a lot of respect for the way Zima runs his stable and the quality of horses the stable has. He also said they did a lot of loans in the past and they didn't work out. I'm sure I would lose money in backing with my approach. Diego is kind of a special case though.

I guess I kind of expected to be flamed for my post. You guys should really stop being so binary in your responses to everything. Real life doesn't work like "omg I disagree with this guy he must be a scumbag too." There are shades and nuances to everything. With Diego, if you assume all of this is true.

- His dad did die, and he had to take care of medical bills
- He did have serious money problems and needed cash badly
- He was a consistent winner and knew he would win it back one day
- He really had no idea what he did was actual stealing.

How are you going to sit there and keyboard warrior that he is a scumbag? Look at the chat logs.. there is a ton of emotion and goodwill there:

8/10/13 2:25 PM
you are stealing money from me and elio

diegokeep
8/10/13 2:25 PM
no
8/10/13 2:25 PM
never
************************

diegokeep 4/3/12 3:48 AM
Zima, I wanted to thank you and elio for the opportunity you gave me. For confidence in my game and for all the support. Thank you. I can be happy to repay them.

Zima 4/3/12 3:48 AM
yeah, glad it worked out...always nice when an investment works out...ha ha

diegokeep 4/3/12 3:49 AM
I was the first Brazilian of your stable, and that to me is a pride to represent the name of my country
****************************

diegokeep
8/11/13 12:19 AM
i need money, i havent money to eat
8/11/13 12:19 AM
i live alone

Zima
8/11/13 12:19 AM
using stake funds for anything other than playing poker is stealing

diegokeep
8/11/13 12:19 AM
my dad dead, i pay all
****************************

I think the "no never" response basically says it all. Even the "relax" response. It almost seems like he considers Elio and Zima very warmly and fondly, like he can't imagine trying to hurt them and didn't think what he was doing was wrong.

You can't just respond to desperate requests like that with "dude you won two Millions, lol." Doesn't he get points for sending over a ton of profits twice and buying out of his makeup 100% in full? The equity alone from buying out his makeup (assuming MU sells at 10-20%) almost covers the $7,000 he "stole."

Also, he doesn't just become a thief because you say he is. That kind of zero tolerance ham-handedness is really stupid, especially when you're dealing with people from different cultures who probably haven't even read the contract thoroughly. Your default response, to just say "oh you are a thief. I'm dropping you from the stake and posting this on 2+2," without even Skyping with him or having a conversation is way too harsh. I do apologize if you did talk with him and just left that part out though.

I know more about contract law and business relationships than all of the trolling dolts combined but I'm actually thankful I don't think like a weak, peer pressured, group-think keyboard crusader. Even if you disagree with me, maybe you can do it in a way that doesn't make you sound like a ******ed 15 year old schoolgirl trying to join the cool girl's club and get invited to sleepovers.

Does your backer come on to 2p2? I would be very worried if i was him if you think diego isn't a scumbag for stealing money that belongs to someone else.

Can you even post objectively though? Dear pokerturo, it's not my fault you sucked in some spot and decided to chat rage against me.

shoutout to you for trying to find good spots to chime in against me when the thread will back you up though. Keep on fighting the good fight!

JJ he signed a contract. It is made pretty clear what is allowed and what isn't at the start of a backing deal when there is a contract with everything laid out. If he signed the contract without reading it he is an idiot. If he read it and did what he did he knowingly broke the rules and stole the money.

and you left out the the "**** you" line from your list of quotes.

why would u have a backer when u print at midstakes and are not good enough for highstakes

Why would any winning player have a backer?

After reading this thread I realize how fortunate am I for never being picked up by staking team (i've applied to few including the one of zima) and keeping all $ won for myself.

^^ Neat stories. Pretty sure everyone can agree stealing is wrong. To me, it looks like jj was reviewing the HH of this fiasco and saw this could have potentially been avoided. Diego's tone went from gratitude to cold and **** you, probably because Zima's remained cold the entire time. I haven't made heaps staking people so I don't know how to do it, Zima does. But the transcripts show zero to little compassion from Zima from the onset, including when Diego comes clean from the beginning that he's in a bad spot.

Just looks like a potential leak in approach on Zima's part, nobody is hear to defend stealing.

Multiple reasons for this.

Variance, life expenses, comfort level to name a few

Wow yea, because I think that cashing out money without letting the backer know is stealing, im suddenly peerpressured, got it. You start sounding like demetri.
Also you do realize that this is not the complete skypechatlog?
It's highly likely that Diego was aware that he was stealing, that scammers deny what they do is wrong is pretty standard. And if you know so much about contract law and business, you can't be serious using him not reading the contract in his defense.
On the other hand as a trolling keyboard warrior I probably just don't have the eye for the especially emotional damaged from a few skypelogs like you, Dr. Freud.

It was a rhetorical question.

No surprise Zima has no heart.

lol

you guys are amazing. you realize thats not the whole chat log right? i just picked out the parts that i thought were relevant?

I suppose i expected some posts like this in the thread though

Are you sure Zima showed zero to little compassion? Looks like he loaned Diego four figures when the guy admitted to being busto. If you read further into the conversation Zima lets Diego take as much time off as necessary after the passing of his father, and shortly after that is when Zima discovered the theft. Exactly how much more compassion is a backer supposed to show here?

fold. was just trying to stick up for jj because I do see where he's coming from.

We don't know everything. Guy stole. Stealing is bad.

Personal family reasons and learning from one of the best in poker (BBZ). Brotherly bonds and friendship. Basically a lot more reasons than I've seen in this thread.

Are you sure it's not just wishful thinking that I'm not good enough for highstakes? I'd be happy to hear what you think my flaws are so I can keep working on my game. Yes I'm not as good as many of the top tier high stakes regs and og's, but I always show them a healthy amount of respect including the Germans. Do I have to go on six figure downswings like your boy to prove I'm good enough for highstakes? What tournaments do you want me to play and try to win for you? I try to stay in my lane and play +ev games. I don't think my finishes are too bad for a really small high stakes sample.

I'm actually sorry to Zima for derailing this. Didn't think it would derail so far into questions about my scumminess and ability to beat the games because of personal grudges.

Just want to restate that if there is more to the chat and Diego was intentionally stealing and knew the consequences of what he was doing, I apologize for defending him and it was dumb of me.

It was kind of short-sighted of me to post anyways. I told Zima I should have just deferred to him since he knows way more about the situation than me. But yeah I basically agree with how Aaralynn interpreted my post. Sorry I'm not just going to post "+1, yes he's a scumbaggggg burn him" based on the facts in the OP.

I think it's ironic so many backed players are totally against what I'm saying here. If horses are just looked as $ values with no extra benefits attached, it seems bad for the "backed player" union. There are too many stables out there that provide personalized coaching, emotional support, and even friendship (poker is a lonely job) to be stuck as just a piece of +ev meat.

Well this isn't true at all

so ur saying ur not a massive douchebag?




i think people steal for a variety of reasons, i don't think anyones excusing the behavior, just pointing out the reasons for it.

sorry jj was just random trolling srry for wasting ur time but i still think u would make way more without a backer
i hope u dont take this as personal attack if u do im happy that u live far away from me