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The Werewolf Academy of POG: Articles and discussions within! The Werewolf Academy of POG: Articles and discussions within!

04-15-2012 , 06:00 PM
The Werewolf Academy of POG

This thread is dedicated to the betterment of the werewolf society in POG. If all goes to plan, the thread will be updated at least once a month with a new article on a specific topic related to werewolf written by a member of our community.

The topics can vary from the moderating aspect of werewolf to the actual playing itself to advice on how to mentally approach and handle the inherent emotional turmoil of werewolf. Once an article has been posted, you are encouraged to comment on it and participate in the ensuing discussion.

Criteria for getting your article published

Please don't post an article in the thread by yourself. Send it to me and I will look through it, maybe give you comments and fix some grammar mistakes etc., and then I will post it in the thread, assuming it fulfills the requirements listed below.
  • Your article should preferably have a specific focus rather than a general and vague one.
  • Your article should preferably not be too similar to topics already discussed as we want to ensure a versatile discussion that can hopefully help to make the werewolf community progress in all areas. If you want to debate an already discussed specific topic from a new angle, then you should just comment on the given article.
  • Your article does not have to meet any academic criteria. If you wish to give it your own personal touch, then that is completely your right. An article can make use of quotes, statistics, personal stories, pictures or whatever you want. The only thing that I will ask is that you make it as grammatically correct and as easy to read as possible. Also, keep it friendly – no swearing or hanging other players out to dry.
  • Your article should not necessarily seek to please the crowd. It is meant to initiate and stimulate constructive discussion and as such it is, in fact, often a good idea to be adversarial to the common ideas and standards of the werewolf community.
  • Your article should include a cliffs section / abstract at the end.
In addition to the above, the maximum allowed characters for a PM is 10,000. You don’t have to keep the length of your article within this limit, but it is probably a good idea to not exceed it too much.

Other than that I would just like to say that everyone should feel free to contribute to this thread, be it through writing an article or participating in the discussions. You need not be a respected player at all to positively contribute – there are rarely wrongs or rights in werewolf, and even if there is a consensus that your article is “wrong”, chances are that it will still lead to a good discussion which benefits the entire community.


Published articles (date/author/title of article)
04/15/2012 – TheDean1: Making Fake Reads and Bussing: The Truth is Your Enemy
04/20/2012 – Systolic: Metagame Matters
04/23/2012 – well named: Planning Early Night Kills in Vanilla Games
04/24/2012 – soah: Information Overload
04/26/2012 - Toganim: How to Approach Must Lynch
11/21/2012 - loosekanen: Villaging for Noobs in the Modern Era
02/04/2013 - monikrazy: Werewolf: Now & Native
02/20/2013 - Chips Ahoy: The Importance of Credibility in Werewolf
02/21/2013 - McAvoy: Faking Seer
02/25/2013 - Toganim: Versatile seer cover and versatile seer play (The Toganim Theory)
09/10/2013 - TheDean1: What is the most important wolf trait?
11/14/2013 - soah: No Lynch
03/09/2014 - soah: The Mechanics of Being a Village



Thread highlights
CPHoya: List of types of reads
Noah: F3 with captain binkles

Last edited by TimeLady; 03-09-2014 at 02:37 PM. Reason: added posts
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04-15-2012 , 06:00 PM
Article #1: Making Fake Reads and Bussing: The Truth is Your Enemy
- written by TheDean1

Based on my experience from playing and railing werewolf games, the single biggest and most common leak in most people’s wolf games is that they simply are not good at being wrong. This can loosely be broken down into 3 aspects of content posting: making fake wolf reads, making fake villager reads, and voting. But before I get into those aspects, I will first touch on some cognitive biases that drive wolves to be too right.

I believe the most abundant leak is in wolves who do something anti-wolf because “it's what they would do as a villager.” Don't take this the wrong way, but most people are probably less impressed with your villager game than you are. Even the best of the best make bad reads and decisions all the time, so don't assume that you are being held to a high standard of correctness. If you don’t have a reputation as a top notch villager, people will tend to be at least somewhat forgiving of your bad reads. Even if you do have a good rep, you will still get some leeway as well as an excuse to be alive at end game. As far as logic and reasoning goes, most people probably don't care or pay attention to your villager game enough to be able to read your mind. Even the people I am most familiar with do things that I would not expect them to do as a villager quite often. It's awfully self-centered to expect people who are not even that familiar with you to know what you'd do as a villager in every situation. It comes naturally since being a wolf heightens your self-consciousness; your entire goal is to be perceived in a certain way, so you need to care about what others think of you. Many people can't help but worry "If I do X or Y anti-village thing, how will people not know that I'm a wolf?"

The reality is that they won't know because catching every detail and coming to the correct conclusion as a villager is impossible, and doing so at a high % is extremely difficult. Villagers are wrong quite often, so wolves should be even wronger. But the problem is that it's hard to be wrong when you have complete information, because the answers seem quite a bit more obvious once you already know them. If you ever feel compelled to defend a villager or push a wolf because they should be obvious, you should immediately reject that notion and ask yourself: Is it obvious to the vast majority of the village? If not, it doesn't matter how obvious a player's role should be, you have free reign to fake believe whatever you want since your job is to be wrong and you can blend in with other wrong villagers.

Bearing in mind how common it is for villagers to be off the mark, everybody should be comfortable in their fur enough to wolf as if they are having a significantly (or at least moderately) below average villager performance. First and foremost, I strongly believe that you are an elite wolf if and only if you are capable of generating convincing and credible wolf cases on villagers. This is important for a number of reasons:

1) Not many wolves are capable of making up strong wolf cases on villagers. When you come in with a strong and thoughtful wolf case on somebody, people are going to inherently be inclined to trust and believe that you are a villager since it's really, really hard to do so while knowing roles.

2) If your case is convincing enough, you can get a villager lynched.

3) The more time villagers spend focusing on the wolfiness of a villager, the less time they will be spending focusing on the wolfiness of the wolves.

When you have all three of these things in your favor, wolfing becomes smooth sailing. You don't need to FPS, you don't need to frequently face the ever difficult dilemma of awkwardly defending your wolf pal vs bussing him, you just need the entire team to vote villagers (and the occasional very wolfy wolf partner, but the longer you delay this the better - most wolfy partners are more salvageable than you might think) and not spew themselves and you win (barring elite seering of course, which is a different story for a different day).

Similarly important is knowing who to defend and when plus how to do so. It's important to not correctly clear/defend too many villagers. This is to your disadvantage for a number of reasons. Obviously you can't endorse every villager wagon ever and not eventually seem really scummy unless you're playing a 9er turbo, but there are not many (if any) people with this problem so it's best to not worry about it. But if you hard defend a villager and they get wagoned against your wolf pal, good luck trying to get away with anything other than a vote on your fellow wolf to save the mislynch. If you hard defend too many villagers, you will inevitably find yourself in this unenviable predicament (or similarly if you always feel compelled to throw a wolf at the end of your wolf list, you might price yourself into voting them over a villager you gave a slight villager lean to). Note that in these situations, it’s still best to attempt to flip your read(s) but it can be difficult to do this without looking bad - it’s a lot smoother if you were just wrong to begin with. Even if you normally read a particular villager well, unless everybody expects you to 100% soulread that person on page 1, you are going to have some margin for error and it's safe to not hard defend that person (or even cast doubt on them) when he/she falls under pressure. Actively defending somebody in a way that may cause villagers to reconsider their opinion (i.e. aggressively defending them as if you peeked them or claiming lock soulread with a clear villa read) should be done sparingly since it might prevent a mislynch but won't get you cleared.

As far as clearing wolf mates goes, everybody should be capable of hard defending their co-wolves at least on occasion. Even if they aren't objectively villagery at all, villagers always are capable of finding thin reasons to soft-clear people or doubt their wolfiness, so you should be able to as well. You don't want to find yourself in a situation where you are bussing your partner simply because you are afraid of spewing yourself wolf with an awkward defense. Remember if you were a villager without complete information, there would probably be a little (or maybe even a lot of doubt) as to whether that player is a wolf or not, so play accordingly as a wolf.

If you actively keep villagers on your wolf list and don't have too many villagers on your villa list, voting villagers for lynch will follow naturally. But you might be thinking, "What difference does it make if I decide to vote a wolfy wolf over a wolfy villager? The wolfy wolf isn't going to win at end game regardless, and we can always lynch the villager later." The answer to this is that it's extremely advantageous to lynch villagers before wolves for a number of reasons:

1) Every time a wolf dies, spew happens and the villagers have more information to solve the game. And even if you voted for the wolf, you aren't going to get as clear as the villager(s) who outed the wolf. If you ever bus a wolf that did not necessarily need to die and don't get universally cleared for it, you should ask yourself what the bus did to advance your team.

2) Keeping a villager alive for an extra day buys him/her outs to clear himself. Some villagers start off wolfy and then clear themselves with a strong effort later in the game. Or maybe he's the seer (seers are often read as wolfy, after all) or seer peeked, or fake peeked by a vanillager that you might eventually NK in a seer hunt. It's always good to get a villager lynch when the opportunity is there, since that opportunity might dry up before you would expect it to.

3) The greater the wolf:villager ratio, the higher % of the vote you control and the easier it is to win. Not every wolf is going to blend in well enough to be there for the end game victory, but for the most part if every team member votes the right villager at the right time, you should win comfortably. Winning with a teammate or two alive is quite a bit easier than winning solo. It doesn't matter if a few (or many) villagers read you (or a partner) as wolf if they can't lynch you, and the greater the wolf:villa ratio, the harder it is to lynch a wolf on a non-bussing team.

4) Even if you are convinced that bussing is a +EV strategy, doing so less frequently will increase the EV when you do decide to bus. It's far more likely that you get cleared for voting a wolf if you have a history of not bussing than it is if you are regarded as a serial busser.

Making incorrect reads comfortably in the most villagery fashion that you can is going to be very healthy for your team. To recap: it keeps villagers focused on the wrong details, it catalyzes the death of villagers before they become clear, lynching villagers helps you kill the seer(s) faster, and it yields a much faster path to victory and allows you to revert to a normal, honest life where you don't have fur and teeth to hide from the world. You obviously need to be correct to some extent, such that people can't just turn your reads upside down and solve the game if you're revealed as wolf. But ultimately people care about how right you are far less than you might expect. Even if you look very suspicious at end game for making a lot of bad reads, once you get to must lynch with 3 or 4 wolves alive it is almost always going to be too late for the town to do anything about it. I would implore anybody that takes wolfing seriously and would like to learn to consistently win to try to push the boundaries of being wrong and seeing how far it can take you; you might be pleasantly surprised with how fun it is to be a wolf when you can consistently lynch villagers and protect your teammates.

Cliffs:
  • You should worry little about what you think you would do as a villager, since very often it is -EV for the team
  • The consequences of being wrong are less severe than you think
  • The ability to build strong wolf cases on villagers will advance your wolf game more than any other means of wolfing in the thread
  • Having too many correct reads will often price you into either bussing or looking bad voting a villa when w/v wagons pop up
  • Villagers getting lynched early and often makes wolf life easy for a number of reasons.
The Werewolf Academy of POG: Articles and discussions within! Quote
04-15-2012 , 06:02 PM
Let the discussion begiiiiiiiiiiin!
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04-15-2012 , 06:06 PM
I'll break the ice by saying that I agree with the article 100%
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04-15-2012 , 06:12 PM
Terrible, I disagree with all of it

Spoiler:
I'll read it now
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04-15-2012 , 06:13 PM
It's right, which is unsurprising because Dean's one of our best wolves.

Would add only that it is important to be cognizant of the spew you are leaving - you should always know and consider what your spew indicates on level 1. It should indicate things that result in error for the village, benefit for your team, and/or do not add to the general consensus in the thread.

Depending on your play style and reputation, interpretation of your spew will render this an art - a sloppy one - rather than a science. You'll never be able to fully predict what a village will do with your contributions. But, for example, if you tend to be a village leader in both roles you can be confident that people you push hard will look a lot like villagers most of the time, and people you protect will look a lot like wolves most of the time. Once you have forced the village to get to level 2 in determining the implications of your spew, you've done your job.

EDIT: The topical point being that your fake reads should be partially determined by your analysis of what the information you're leaving will cause to happen later. Exceptions obviously apply where you are the wolf who has to win the game, in which case you don't care what your "spew" would mean because if your "spew" is being read the game is already over.
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04-15-2012 , 06:14 PM
I'm too tired to comment much on it, but as I've already told TheDean1, I very much agree with the article.

And I'd add the following benefit to not being too good with your reads:

You avoid wolfily defending people. This is personally something that I utilize very much in my wolf hunting and I think it also ticks a lot of other people's radars when people defend someone in a way that appears unnatural or impossible. People rarely clear other people for having good reads on other villagers - but they do suspect people because of it.
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04-15-2012 , 06:19 PM
I mostly described what you need to do on a broad level, think it would be a really good follow up article if somebody wanted to delve in how to make villagery defenses and/or wolf cases. Spew control is probably pretty important too. It's not really if you can master posting content in a comfortable, villagery tone, but a lot of people can't so you should be wary that people can see through most of your attempts at misdirection.

edit- just saw hoya's edit, hoya you should prob write about that.
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04-15-2012 , 06:21 PM
Given the Anniversary game, maybe I should write the spew article :P (not a single person got anything right in their spew re-reads of me)
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04-15-2012 , 06:22 PM
Cliffs on wolf cases is villagers do incoherent and detrimental things as often as wolves do, and they often do so with poorly defensible or indefensible reasoning, meaning they are ripe for lynch if you demonstrate what they've done.

Bear in mind you're not even lying about the content of your argument. You're only lying about what will result if your argument is accepted (or more artfully, you're lying about your "expectation" of the result if your argument is accepted, which is even easier to do since you don't ever have to say you're "sure").

Last edited by CPHoya; 04-15-2012 at 06:30 PM. Reason: obv sociopath
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04-15-2012 , 06:22 PM
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04-15-2012 , 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingyman
Given the Anniversary game, maybe I should write the spew article :P (not a single person got anything right in their spew re-reads of me)
I wonder if everybody reading a good spew article will cause level 2 to become the new level 1.
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04-15-2012 , 06:30 PM
If you wish to write an article, then please bold the topic in the thread so Thingy and I can see it upon skimming
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04-15-2012 , 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimHalpert
OH HEY UNDERTITLE i didn't know you were coming
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04-15-2012 , 06:32 PM
HOWWWWWWWWLLLLLLLLLLLLpert!!!
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04-15-2012 , 06:34 PM
For example if I were to argue that TL just had a wolfy pop-in mecahnics post followed by fluff, that would be true and I could argue for her lynch without having to worry about being "wolfy."
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04-15-2012 , 06:34 PM
Ok, I agree with all of it and would add that wolves must interact with each other in the thread more frequently, not avoid talking to one another. The fear of spew and avoiding posting as often because of it seems mostly unfounded, I believe you can control your spew and cause villagers to misinterpret it often when you die (if you are trying, from the beginning).

Also, you are a wolf, be a ****ing wolf. Don't try to blend in too much and simply sponge cases. Actively try to lynch villagers and not lynch fellow wolves. Bussing gets way less credit than people seem to think, if you can vote for a villager instead of a wolf then you should do it and not worry how it looks. Always be wolfing.
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04-15-2012 , 06:45 PM
why didnt I get to write the bussing article?
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04-15-2012 , 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPHoya
For example if I were to argue that TL just had a wolfy pop-in mecahnics post followed by fluff, that would be true and I could argue for her lynch without having to worry about being "wolfy."
I think that depends on

a) who you are
b) who I am

I haven't read deans article yet, so forgive me if i'm repeating, but if I'm the sort of player who often makes mechanics posts early in a game, and you're a player who knows that, then I would argue that it's not entirely an easy route to take because it could be picked up on and you could be legit called "wolfy"
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04-15-2012 , 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPHoya
For example if I were to argue that TL just had a wolfy pop-in mecahnics post followed by fluff, that would be true and I could argue for her lynch without having to worry about being "wolfy."
Yeah that's pretty much what I meant by saying that you need to be able to push villager lynches. Sometimes the case should be this simple, other times you can give more details. You just need at least one reason which seems like it should be positively correlated with her odds of being a wolf.
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04-15-2012 , 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeLady
I think that depends on

a) who you are
b) who I am

I haven't read deans article yet, so forgive me if i'm repeating, but if I'm the sort of player who often makes mechanics posts early in a game, and you're a player who knows that, then I would argue that it's not entirely an easy route to take because it could be picked up on and you could be legit called "wolfy"
And then if I were to point out that TL totally overlooked a joke my credibility would be hugely increased.

EDIT: Dean too!
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04-15-2012 , 07:02 PM
uh yeah i was going to check to see if you were referring to her posts in the thread but then i forgot
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04-15-2012 , 07:10 PM
op is tl;dr. also op +1
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04-15-2012 , 07:11 PM
There are a lot of great posts that have been written over the years that could be relinked here with appropriate titles. If only there was an someone who loves to spend his time finding ways to improve the pog ww community and has a knack for searching forums and compiling databases that could do all the work for us...

How ya been Thingy?
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04-15-2012 , 07:14 PM
they're in the sticky!

at least, some of them are
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