Pog Pub March 2012 (LC Thread) Everybody Welcome (NSFW)

[filthyvermin]

it's insane that all of our phones we carry in our pockets are a billion times better computers than the computers on the voyager ship that is hurdling through the galaxy right now

[atakdog]

I'm sure they do, for good reasons and bad.

Over time I continue to become less and less happy with how large institutions behave — and I include in this government agencies (and Congress ldo), corporations, charities, educational institutions, everything. It is just so difficult to get any institution to pursue its putative mission rationally and efficiently, because everyone associated with it has his own agenda.

Meanwhile, people outside the institution, whatever it is, seem remarkably willing to put faith in it. And so we get government that doesn't work, corporations that don't profit maximize or obey the law, churches and universities that let look the other way as their people molest children — and at the same time, citizens who believe their country can do no wrong regardless how much contrary evidence they encounter, shareholders who think the chairman is god, church members and alumni who are certain their favorite institution is above reproach...

I'm a big government guy politically, but it's a hard position to maintain in the face of so much evidence that almost every government sucks at almost everything. All that keeps me from going libertarian is the certainty that however ****ed up things are at the moment, without strong government they'd get even worse.

[atakdog]

Originally Posted by filthyvermin

it's insane that all of our phones we carry in our pockets are a billion times better computers than the computers on the voyager ship that is hurdling through the galaxy right now

This is actually proof more that software development is inefficient than anything else.

Every year, computers double (ish) in power, but they sure don't get twice as good at doing stuff. Simpler is very often better, but software almost never shrinks, and complexity is costly (in terms of performance, in this case).

[Tao1]

I saw this ted talk (you can skip the caveing stuff and go to 10:50 if you want) some years back, would very likely sign up for that if able. If you combine this with atakdogs thoughts, we should be able to push space exploration. While its terrible if things go wrong, if someone chooses to go out there knowing the risks, we should just let them.

[filthyvermin]

i love how atak says he has nothing to offer and then write a manifesto

it's good stuff though. i know exactly what you mean about govt. my misinformed, libertarian, young poker player flatmates in montreal believed we would be better off if there were no govt. as bad as our govts are it's obvious that corporations would just devour us and the planet if unchecked

[gder402]

I was skyping with my sister and niece today and realized when I was in elementary and probably middle school video calls were as futuristic as lightsabers and teleportation to me

[kioshk]

Once we finally get our Jetson flying cars, I might be impressed.

[atakdog]

Originally Posted by filthyvermin

i love how atak says he has nothing to offer and then write a manifesto

Guess I just needed a catalyst.

I like talking, as everyone here knows, particularly about stuff that requires thought. I move hither and thither wrt what I like to think about. I moved mostly on from Pub because it was always the same stuff and I get impatient and bored, but if there's something new to think about, I'm there. (Thus my taking on ice hockey this winter — it was a new, fun thing to think about, and it was fun — and along the way it turns out I came up with a minor addition to the body of knowledge about the game.)

Watching the TED talk esse linked now.

[atakdog]

Now I want to go to the moon.

Or at least do some overnight spelunking.

[Tao1]

How far along are we at either inventing better (more compact) ways of storing and recovering energy than fossil fuels or having an algae farm produce fossil fuels?
Algae farm in orbit? Algea alternative dyson sphere?

[atakdog]

Pretty far. Algae production really requires dramatic genetic reengineering of the algae (and actually at that point bacteria might work better), and we don't know how to design genes yet, only move them around a bit. Maybe 50 years on a commercial scale, maybe more.

The energy density of fossil fuels is still an order of magnitude better than anything else that's feasible in large quantities. Hydrogen fuel cells get touted as being the solution to that problem (and to other problems, which it doesn't solve — it gets pushed primarily by the coal industry, because that's where they hope the juice to generate the hydrogen comes from), but it's a fair ways off and still won't help space exploration much.

Dyson sphere? I predict 100K years. Not the technology as much as the magnitude of the project.

[kioshk]

Let's send that mother****ing algae into space.

[Tao1]

Really? The dyson sphere cant be more than a few thousand years, perhaps even a few hundred years off from where an orbital algea production site is slightly over self sufficient due to exponential processes imo.

Edit: wasnt there a competition some time back where they played with genes and such?

[atakdog]

Um, you mean a true dyson sphere, around a star? That will take at least a planet worth of material unless something pretty unexpected gets developed.

[TimeLady]

nerds itt

Spoiler:

<3 nerds