George Orwell - author of the famous 1984, the book used probably more than any other to show how socialism is inherently evil or flawed -

Georgia Orwell himself was an avowed socialist.

The alternative to the government fulfilling this need is giant corporations, who (imo) are considerably more corrupt and evil.

Ya, I dont get it. I dont believe i need the government to protect me from lobbyists.

Adding a corrupt government to solve a corrupt lobbyist doesnt seem like a great idea.

Hey the house is on fire, lets add more fire.

you dont have any highly successful check and balances in store to stop the government from just being an extension of the lobbyists. it just adds another level for us to get screwed.

i guess u guys are just way more trusting of government than me.

Nobody is doing this. Are you high?

Name ten

Somebody pm me when this is over. Ktb.

Do you even ****ing read bro? The part YOU quoted said he was against socialist ideals and only used the name because it was tendy.

Seriously, are you ****ing high?

Openly admitting to trolling. You admit you cannot discus it in any intellegent way but brought it up anyway simply as a means to bring back the stupid ****ing "Obama is a socialist" talking point.

Disgraceful

You threw the word "social" in there.

Socialism is not "direct control of the economy".

Socialism is workers' controlling the means of production. Hitler absolutely did not do that and he put socialists in camps for advocating it.

I'm tired of it now. You can define it how you like. I'm not going to discuss this or anything else with you further.

However, do not describe Hitler as a socialist. You know better and I will assume you are doing it to troll.

I've infracted VMF for ignoring the warning not to continue trolling. He'll be permabanned next time. Enough is enough.

He wasn't saying anything about socialism since he didn't think socialism and totalitarianism were synonymous. No matter how many times you say that government control of the economy or aspects of it is "socialism", you will still be utterly wrong.

Socialism is control of the means of production for the workers. That can indeed mean a spectrum of ideas but it is not simply that the government runs something. What matter is who it runs it for.

Did anyone hear Trump today saying that Australia (which has universal healthcare) had a better healthcare system than the US?

I found that funny

He recently expanded on that idea:

So everyone has better healthcare than we do... and we are going to catch up by not emulating everyone else?

Makes perfect sense. I'm sure his supporters are totally on board with this drivel

are you suggesting the existence of a government itself invites further lobbyist influence?

If the government is supposed to be a check on the interests represented by lobbyists, interests which we will agree are howsoever nefarious, how do we keep the interests/lobbyists at bay instead of through government? Whatever that is, that is "government": just iterated differently.

do not accuse me of trolling. I am not trolling simply by having a reasonable disagreement with you. I am not contravening any of the rules you edited into the first post.

I'm not suggesting you are a nazi; nazi's breathed oxygen (as well) afaiu. I am actually suggesting, fundamentally, that you are not a nazi.

There is a difference between not trusting the government and destroying it.

The field is ripe for middle ground.



Your rationale is that we cannot have perfect checks, so we should have none.

We're going to do it better. It's going to be great.

Starting October 1, 2017, you have to reapply for state-assisted insurance no later than every 6 months.

If a state overpays for assisted coverage (based upon a federally predetermined "target"), the state loses federal money.

source (btw)

(pause for applause)

Nah, I am suggesting the existence of government does not really stop corporations and just gives another middle man a way to take a cut while exploiting us and history significantly backs up that view

nah, im not for no regulations or government trying nothing. I want them to provide some things for sure. Just think its important to realize one of the main reasons to not give them so much power is they can be as evil and corrupt as the corporations but with no one really being held in check

i just want some better anti-lobbyist-anti corruption laws that people will actually go to jail for if they break them. im not so cynical that i think government can never work.

i am for the middle ground plenty of times, just think we need to recognize governments failures and not repeat historys mistakes

i dont want to destroy government. i want the swamp drained. i think different laws on these high people in power can be made so that our government can function properly. the bank bail outs and no one being arrested for handling such a big situation so poorly and no accountability is the perfect example of this

like with internet gambling. the government took my job away because casinos paid them enough money to go after online gambling, my money was confiscated for 6 years and there was no consistent action with what the government was doing. they just went after online poker cause of casino lobbyists and nfl gambling ones i think. not cause people voted them to do it

i dont even know the exact laws on gambling for our country even though ive been doing it for years because the government enforces based on lobbyist influence

Either that was sarcasm or my detector is way off.