Quote:
Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan
he can veto and create stalemates ... although congress can override, although that is unlikely with the probable breakdown post election day
but still .. he can veto but cannot create laws ...
so the pres is more powerful than congress at maintaining the status quo, and congress is more powerful than the pres at creating legislation
Only part I'd disagree with, in that while he obviously cannot create laws, the White House (Dem or Rep) clearly does influence the creation of legislation. But yeah, I'd roughly agree with this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clowntable
Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong. Democratic controll of Congress will be the counterargument the Republicans will and should use.
I completely agree with Zurvan that all that matters here is what people perceive to be the cause and effect of things.
So of course the Democrats will go ahead and blame the Republicans for the slumping economy even if they will just look like fools to anyone who can stop and think a little.
There's two issues at hand here: what's true, and what the majority of voters think is true.
My original point (and for the love of god, could we go back to electoral college prediction?) was that the majority of voters will favor the Democratic party on the economy. I don't think the Republicans can make an effective political pitch to win that issue; I think their best hope is that either the economy does
not end up as the overriding issue, or that they find a political pitch that blunts the Democratic advantage.
Regarding what is
actually true, it is more complex. It also boils down to an ideological debate in the end, which is why I don't see the Republicans gaining traction on it politically. Personally, I think the blame lies heavily at the movement to deregulate the financial markets -- something which I'd attribute more heavily to Republicans, but which Clinton and neo-liberal economic policies were certainly involved in as well. It's not something that I think can be reasonably blamed on the current Democratic Congress -- I'm not arguing that they would have fixed it given a veto-proof majority, but that they didn't have any ability to even try given that they lacked that majority.
I imagine that'll rile up some ACers to defend deregulation.
Before I get branded a full-blown socialist Democrat communist, I'd like to briefly talk about something else that came to mind on the economy -- something where I disagree with Democrats on, or at least their rhetoric: free trade. While I agree with them that labor and environmental protections should be stronger, whenever they slip into protectionist mode and demonize free trade as a reason the economy is tanking, I cringe. It's not true. Free trade isn't the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan
Madtown:
we are having a reasonable discussion here. You are obviously very opinionated, as am i and others in this thread. Still, the discussion has been good, there have been no personal attacks, and maybe we are all learning something
why do you wish you stayed away from this thread?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madtown
I find it hard not to engage in political debate without either saying things that unintentionally appear to be trolling (or intentionally trolling)