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02-26-2017 , 12:44 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ring-life.html

Classic Clinton Cartel

"DailyMail.com has obtained a video in which convicted illegal Clinton fundraisers Johnny Chung gave secret testimony while in fear of his life
The Chinese-American was convicted of funneling money to Bill Clinton's 1996 re-election bid in a breach of campaign finance law known as 'Chinagate'
Now new book revealed how he spilled details of his activities in a video he made because he thought a squad of assassins would come after him
He made the video with a friend after his FBI protection detail was suddenly removed - which Chung said on the tape shocked even his judge
Chung feared meeting same fate as Ron Brown, Clinton commerce secretary, who died in plane crash, friend who made the tape reveals
Video is revealed in new book about the Chinagate scandal "
02-26-2017 , 01:25 AM
New York Times, CNN, fake news.
Daily Mail, beacon of truth.

We are definitely in a post-truth world.
02-26-2017 , 03:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 72off
https://apnews.com/16f9289a9ec9433b8d8b14a72f69a90f

he's a U.S.-based "independent" "analyst"

#realnews

Here's a discussion about rape stats, showing that the documentary underlying fox's reporting on Sweden misrepresents more or less everything:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03gzh7x

Sweden doesn't experience more rape, it hasn't risen in the last 5 years it was a change in the statistical method, and that increase happened before the large scale refugee introduction
02-26-2017 , 04:16 AM
lol at the democrats choosing tom perez

i can't imagine how anyone could honestly support the democratic party
02-26-2017 , 04:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Banana
Capitalism does not say work will pay for or reward those who innovate, those who contribute, those who increase the overall utility. It says work will benefit whoever holds wealth.
I have trouble getting to a place where that description of capitalism is okay.

Sure who has wealth is important, maybe the most important sometimes, but it's not the only thing that is important.

Quote:
And all benefits in the economy are controlled by wealth holders -- if capitalism is efficient then in proportion to how much wealth each person holds.
Not very clear what you mean. If I was being generous I'd agree with the entire statement and what it implies.

The last statement I almost agree with but technological innovations aren't fully captured by 'wealth'.
02-26-2017 , 05:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Banana
And importantly, I think, journalists really do see themselves as seekers after the Truth.
A lot of journalists out there with a lot of backgrounds.
02-26-2017 , 05:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by filthyvermin
lol at the democrats choosing tom perez

i can't imagine how anyone could honestly support the democratic party
I think your feelings are going to be widely shared on the left. I'm not sure the Democrats really can win without the left but clearly they plan to try.
02-26-2017 , 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrologue
A lot of journalists out there with a lot of backgrounds.
I don't know of any journalist cynical enough to believe they're in the lying business.
02-26-2017 , 05:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrologue
I have trouble getting to a place where that description of capitalism is okay.

Sure who has wealth is important, maybe the most important sometimes, but it's not the only thing that is important.
You define capitalism too broadly to make sense of what I said afaik.


Quote:
Not very clear what you mean. If I was being generous I'd agree with the entire statement and what it implies.

The last statement I almost agree with but technological innovations aren't fully captured by 'wealth'.
They are not just fully captured by it by are motivated by it.
02-26-2017 , 05:06 AM
All these alt definitions really mess me up. Anarchy. Capitalism. Fake News.

Tires me out.
02-26-2017 , 05:12 AM
Perhaps it'd be better to stick to the same definitions everyone else uses then?
02-26-2017 , 05:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Banana
I don't know of any journalist cynical enough to believe they're in the lying business.
Project mockingbird worth a Google search.
02-26-2017 , 05:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Banana
You define capitalism too broadly to make sense of what I said afaik.
I'm using current America as my model.

Quote:
They are not just fully captured by it by are motivated by it.
I get the feeling I should ask what you mean by wealth?


specifically, how is wealth measured?

Last edited by Myrologue; 02-26-2017 at 05:46 AM.
02-26-2017 , 05:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Banana
Perhaps it'd be better to stick to the same definitions everyone else uses then?
I think I'm familiar with an okay number of ways to use words like those.
02-26-2017 , 05:33 AM
But political language changes a lot. It's hard to pin down.
02-26-2017 , 05:49 AM
Capitalism means the same today it did 50 years ago.

Anarchism has never meant isolationism.

Luckbox, point taken. But I think you shouldn't draw too broad a conclusion from it. Mockingbird was supposed to be 50 journos worldwide.
02-26-2017 , 05:53 AM
Wealth is definable in different ways. We could settle on "retained surplus" if we understand that that includes nominal surplus because of course a hundred dollars is not real in the same way a bucket of gold is.
02-26-2017 , 06:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Banana
Capitalism means the same today it did 50 years ago.

Anarchism has never meant isolationism.
Uh sure, the textbook definition doesn't change much - not that different books don't put emphasis on different parts. Like how you put emphasis on how in capitalism wealth aggregates. (something that is probably more noticeable the more liquid and less well managed an economy is)

But people do change.

When someone says anarchy I don't think they picture any sort of system of law and order beyond our own two hands; but I do understand that there is another way to interpret the word, in light of its history.

Last edited by Myrologue; 02-26-2017 at 06:41 AM.
02-26-2017 , 06:37 AM
Capitalism, the clue is in the name. It is precisely wealth grows wealth.

As for anarchism, not even worth arguing.
02-26-2017 , 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Banana
Capitalism, the clue is in the name. It is precisely wealth grows wealth.
How is that?

I admit I'm not familiar with the etymology but it basically means about wealth, no?

Quote:
As for anarchism, not even worth arguing.
Why would there be arguing? You are using anarchy in a very academic way, I think. That's cool.
02-26-2017 , 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Banana
The utility of your definition? Defining an anarchist as someone disagreeable who refuses to cooperate with others is absolutely worthless. It may be there are some people who live up a mountain and shoot at anyone who comes near their cabin who call themselves anarchists but they're not exactly classical.
I don't think an anarchist must refuse to cooperate with others.

I do think an anarchist would not describe an outside majority rule as per se legitimately sovereign over nir.


What do you mean by the term?
02-26-2017 , 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Banana
I do mean to write something about failures of capitalism but I did have a thought that more or less encapsulates the problem with it as a system of economic organisation.

Why is it true to say that capitalism is simply a system of economic rent?

Consider the state of the economy at any given moment. Capitalism does not say work will pay for or reward those who innovate, those who contribute, those who increase the overall utility. It says work will benefit whoever holds wealth. It doesn't matter how they acquired that wealth, only that they have it. And all benefits in the economy are controlled by wealth holders -- if capitalism is efficient then in proportion to how much wealth each person holds.
Don't the wealth-holders pay a rent on their wealth?
02-26-2017 , 09:34 AM
sorry, monkey. you did define it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Banana
Distributed power with people making decisions democratically, preferably at a level as close as possible to the individual, is what anarchy is.
then i responded

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf
I don't believe an "anarchist" would bend to the sheer will of nir neighbors' preferences.
from which you somehow gleaned

Quote:
Defining an anarchist as someone disagreeable who refuses to cooperate with others
02-26-2017 , 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by filthyvermin
i can't imagine how anyone could honestly support the democratic party
trump 2020! Continue To Make America Great Again!!
02-26-2017 , 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
Project mockingbird worth a Google search.
ironic to be concerned that the corrupt, fake, corporate media is infiltrated by the state?

      
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