*meth

meth does that to the eyes? gotcha. must be partying with millenials

Foreign policy is a business, apparently.

Trump locking up that anti-Rosie O'Donnell vote.

stamina

When did Tom Brokaw turn into George Burns?

anyway, which way are these betting markets moving

Away from Trump. Big time.

How are there still people who think "trickle down economics" is anything by a scam perpetrated by the rich?

And then we said that it would trickle down! Trickle! Down!

I wasn't giving the debate 100% of my focus, but my general impression was that neither candidate probably did much to change anyone's opinion of either of them. Both came off as rather smug and contemptuous at times, Hillary's response to the email server thing sounded way too scripted and fake, and Trump gave several completely ridiculous answers while trying to avoid answering questions and he got pretty flustered at times.

I haven't checked for other opinions other than what's posted in this thread, but it's hard for me to see this as anything but a win for Hillary.

I almost totally agree with you Soah but for the conclusion. I think Trump won by being on stage with her and not gaffing out.
Does that mean overall it puts him as favourite to win? No.
But, he crossed a hurdle today.
I think she missed a huge change to win the race right there and then by throwing haymaker after hay maker at him. She can run on her record elsewhere - in that debate she need to throw punches at him sooo hard that it disqualified him.

She is still box seating but she is losing ground by her strategy. She is seeking to triangulate but the Republican men just will vote down ticket if they do not vote Trump. Where she is losing is she is bleeding enthusiasm from her own side.
Both balloons are deflating but I think hers more quickly.

He made several gaffes imo. His response on birtherism wasn't even coherent, he said that Hillary has been battling ISIS for her entire adult life, and at least once he was asked a question and he just ignored it so that he could talk about the previous topic. Several of his interruptions were pretty bad as well.

Edit to add: I think he also committed a pretty bad gaffe when he doubled down on being unable to release his tax returns and then turned around and undermined everything he'd just said by offering to release them over his lawyer's objections in exchange for the missing emails.

Trump's gaffes operate on a different scale though.

I think you're largely right, digger - trump definitely had a lower bar and so he can "lose" the debate but still surprise on the upside.

But the polls were saying that the election was a coin flip yesterday morning, so your analysis of Hilary's position is a little off, also I think she really doesn't want to get into a slanging match with trump - aggression plays poorly in 1-1 debates we are told, women get more easily labeled as "shrill", but finally this seems like the paradigm case of the wrestle-a-pig metaphor. Trump want the chance to land an energising one liner. Measured aggression and statesmanlike is the way to go.

Also, she's had a terrible run: she collapsed in public ffs, and was investigated by the FBI. The big picture is that it'll be kind of amazing to weather the storm of near death on the campaign trail and still win. Maybe she could be running a better campaign, but that Trump can only fight a zombie alleged criminal to a tie is a measure of how terrible a candidate he is. (Conversely, that Hillary can only fight a racist pathological liar with the worst hair in presidential history, a below average IQ, and a habit of groping his own daughter, is a measure of how bad a candidate she is, although I'd say that was less directly her fault)

Not gaffing out? He admitted to using legal loopholes to defraud people he owed money to. He claimed that his big victory in race relations was not discriminating while building a country club and agreeing to a settlement in a discrimination lawsuit "without admitting fault."

Why are these not gaffes to you? He presented himself as a ****ing straight up con man. Not like a "Oh Trump is such a con man" but in a "Trump will literally con you out of money on the backs of his lies."

He made his foreign policy with NATO sound like a mobster demanding payment for protection lest some kneecapping befall those countries that didn't pay up.

Why is this acceptable to anybody?

They are gaffe's by any conventional measure, master.

Trump just is operating in a different universe.

She gains nothing in the political centre - Republicans will not vote her and Independents that lean Democrat voted Bernie.

No she needs to energise her base and connect passionately with the Left.
Sure - she should not be shrill but use the Democratic platform for her fight back.
Education - her plan - then smack Trump with Trump Uni
Social Security her plan - vs Trump Casino - do you want to gamble your future with Trump
Tax plan - her plan - He will not release tax return

Affirmative action and Abortion - her record ---> trump and Megan Kelly

boom, bam, smack drop mic!
She did none of that.

Aggressive by working from her base.

She chose measured leaning centrist.

She is using 90s play book 25 years too late.

Der Market and almost every poll of the debate outcomes disagree with you Digger.

What has Hillary accomplished during her time in her various powers?

What do you think about Benghazi?

What do you think were in the 30k+ Deleted e-mails?

Why did she smash cell phones with a Hammer?

Why did she use Bleach Bit?

What do you think of the Clinton Foundation?

Why do you trust her in any capacity?

The fact is Trump, is an outsider that will bring real change and shake up the current rigged/failed system. Reading the recent politics debate thread it may as well be re-named the Hillary circle jerk thread.

Hillary is a LIAR, a disgrace and has cost American Lives. She is a career politician and Trump didn't need to run for President anyways and I respect him with all of my heart for trying to bring REAL CHANGE.

What did Obama run on? Change you can believe in!... What good changes has Obama made? Trump is running to MAKE the REAL change that is needed without running with that as a campaign slogan. Hillary is an extension of the Obama presidency.

I doubt we will ever agree on this but to try and paint Trump as the bad guy for some questionable business deals compared to Hillary's record of failure and deaths is just grasping.

Hillary represents a rigged system to put her in as a puppet to complete others objectives/interests, she doesn't have her own vision for a better future, Trump does.

It is unbelievable that so many Jobs are moving out of the country to Mexico and other places just for the businesses to sling their products because it is cheaper for them to do it while costing American jobs.

Trump has the right mindset, Trump has the vision and goals for a better America, how do you explain 20 Trillion dollars of debt? How does that get fixed? What is the end game for that debt? What is the point of debt where someone we owe that debt to steps in and takes drastic action?

America needs someone to not stack up Debt and to fix it, with Hillary it will just be the same old situation, her pandering to the special interest groups while stacking up more and more debt.

USA Needs a real change to fix that debt, could you imagine the next president lowering the Debt? Can you imagine Hillary lowering that debt (no) I can imagine Trump lowering that debt though.

What I posted doesn't even touch on her goal to allow hundreds of thousands of refugees into the country. America needs to take care of itself before it is even considered to allow hundreds of thousands of refugees into the country, and I promise, some of those allowed in under Hillary will execute Terrorist attacks/shootings/bombings against the USA. That is not what is needed.

Trump is what is needed. I truly trust Trump and his vision for the future. Hillary is simply a puppet with a record of failure that has cost American lives and nothing will change with her in command.

Does that mean overall it puts him as favourite to win? No.

Yeah, how those Markets work for you on Brexit?

Or the republican nomination process?

w/e

I do not think you understood my point.

She lost by not winning.
She ought to have wrapped it up. The fact that she hasn't points to a fundamental strategic error. She is using orthodox tactics and they are not helping her beat a farking lunatic imbecile.

Why is that?

Oh dear me Kruze.

Say it ain't so, you are a Trump supporter.

Oh ffs.

Excluding a few pragmatic apologists - there are very few Hilary supporters here.

We just do not want the fascist either.

Yup, and most of 2p2 seems to be Hillary supporters so I guess that makes me wolfy, it is also why I don't really post much about it to avoid the heat/confrontations.

I've actually considered de-modding quitting 2p2 over the mass Clinton support... but I can compartmentalize and mod/keep Puzzles and Other Games Still Great Again....politics aside so whatever.

I'm 100% voting for Trump. I would welcome any argument that would change my mind but I honestly don't see that happening. Just don't do it by attacking Trump, try to convince me by promoting Hillary.

The market movement after the debate was a significant swing towards Hilary. Yes, she should have wrapped it up already, but that doesn't change the fact that the debate had a positive impact on her chances.