POG Philosophy and Religion thread

[clowntable]

Or just read Feyerabend

[amplify]

What philosophers do you fine folks actually enjoy reading for literary value as well as philosophical content?

Nietzsche is the most entertaining writer imo. He never sought to formulate a cohesive system, which frustrates those trying to encapsulate his thought, and employed a largely aphoristic style which allowed him the freedom to explore any particular detail without bothering about how and where it fit. His most valued literary work, Zarathustra, is written in a beautiful archaic style, and he also wrote quite a lot of poetry which I'm sure loses even more in translation than his prose.

Contrast this with the literary stylings of Kant and Hegel (or as they say in baseball, your Kants and your Hegels), those most interested in systematization. Dry, dry dry.

[Luckbox Inc]

does camus count?

also-- Kierkegaard

[well named]

I can second both Nietzsche and Kierkegaard just for reading. I've enjoyed all of Daniell Dennett's stuff too, speaking of someone more modern. Douglas Hofstadter.

All of the other stuff I like isn't really literary at all, but of course I haven't read that much

[Victor Kros]

is philosophy like classical music in a way that you must learn to appreciate it or something? i never had, still don't, any interest in philosophy, religion and classical music (ill add to this list politics and wine).
am i missing out?

[amplify]

I should read Kierkegaard, I hear good things.

It just occurred to me that the other great systematizer, Aristotle, is also almost completely unreadable. This may be because what we have of him may largely be notes taken by students. Certainly Plato is of high literary quality even when his content is ridiculous.

And dusting you said something about Camus being >>>> Sartre. Care to explain? I find Sartre to be very readable and his output imo included very fine plays and novels.

[clowntable]

Descartes is great for learning/appreciating French
Kierkegaard...meh...he has cool hair though

any interest in philosophy, religion and classical music am i missing out?

yes, no, yes

[amplify]

Originally Posted by Victor Kros

is philosophy like classical music in a way that you must learn to appreciate it or something? i never had, still don't, any interest in philosophy, religion and classical music.
am i missing out?

Very much so. Philosophy, like art and music, is a reaction to that which came before. Beethoven sounds as he does partly because Haydn and Mozart had perfected the Classical style and the music needed to go somewhere. It is said that all of western philosophy is footnotes to Plato. So if you don't know what Haydn sounds like, you don't know why Beethoven was so awesome. If you don't understand the Platonic Realism you won't get why Kant was bothering so intricately about all that a priori stuff.

Bertrand Russel's History of Western Philosophy has its problems but is still a great place to start imo.

[Victor Kros]

Originally Posted by amplify

Very much so. Philosophy, like art and music, is a reaction to that which came before. Beethoven sounds as he does partly because Haydn and Mozart had perfected the Classical style and the music needed to go somewhere. It is said that all of western philosophy is footnotes to Plato. So if you don't know what Haydn sounds like, you don't know why Beethoven was so awesome. If you don't understand the Platonic Realism you won't get why Kant was bothering so intricately about all that a priori stuff.

Bertrand Russel's History of Western Philosophy has its problems but is still a great place to start imo.

thnx for the reply, makes sense

[Luckbox Inc]

well. Its pretty subjective. And I do like them both. But with Camus and I went out and read pretty much everything he ever wrote-- I didn't feel the need to do the same with Sarte.

Sartre was definitely more of a philosopher than Camus though-- I don't think anybody would deny that. So I guess that means I just like the writing better.

I've probably read The Fall straight through 3 or 4 times. Its great. Although my favorite from Camus is the play, Caligula

The Myth of Sisyphus is of course a classic. My copy has all sorts of notes in the margins that I cannot make out of the meaning of today.

The Stranger is totally worthless.

Of Sartre. I know that I found some of the short stories in the The Wall very impressionable, but beyond that none of his works really struck me all that much. No Exit is good too.

[amplify]

Originally Posted by well named

Douglas Hofstadter

GEB is one of the 5 books I'd take with me to a desert island along with Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Homer, an edition of Shakespeare, and a book of Shelley's poetry.

[Luckbox Inc]

re Kierkegaard

definitely pick up a copy of Either/Or. I think I have the penguin version.

Its one of those books that you can just pretty much pick up and read any section of whenever you're so inclined.

Who I always wanted to read though have haven't is Heidegger. If anybody wanted to comment on him I'd appreciate it.

[clowntable]

+1 on Douglas Hofstadter. I wish there was (maybe there is?) a small version of GEB with just the prose stuff.

Another modern I enjoy is Robert M. Pirsig (Lila, Zen and them Bikes)

Who I always wanted to read though have haven't is Heidegger. If anybody wanted to comment on him I'd appreciate it.

Frustrating, annoying, meh

[amplify]

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Who I always wanted to read though have haven't is Heidegger. If anybody wanted to comment on him I'd appreciate it.

All I know is that unlike Nietzsche, who was co-opted by the Nazis and hated anti-semites, Heidegger actually was an unrepentant Nazi. Which doesn't make his thought less valuable any more than Wagner's disgusting personal views make Parsifal any less beautiful.

[Luckbox Inc]

Originally Posted by amplify

GEB is one of the 5 books I'd take with me to a desert island along with Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Homer, an edition of Shakespeare, and a book of Shelly's poetry.

ohh. I'm doing mine

The Waves by Virginia Woolf.
No other book has affected me as much

The Blue Cliff Record

Complete Poems of Amy Clampitt
would need a thick dictionary to go with it

War and Peace
have gotten 1/4 of the way through it twice. Would like to actually finish it someday.

Complete Rilke
Its Rilke